Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Transportation topics in KC

How will you vote on Chastain's LRT proposal?

I will vote Yes!
81
56%
I will vote No!
38
26%
I don't vote!
8
6%
I don't live in KCMO
17
12%
 
Total votes: 144

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DaveKCMO
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby DaveKCMO » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:20 pm

WoodDraw wrote:That's also 100% correct, and I can't figure out why people don't understand it. The best thing for Kansas City is to slowly do rail out to places that want it, and make them pay. It will urbanize the area, and it's one of the few scenarios across the US that is actually working.


the "value capture" model stops working with the UMKC and riverfront extensions -- not enough value to cover the capital cost -- if you want the conservative calculation used thus far. it only worked on a larger scale in 2014 because the district went all the way to the stadiums and the midtown/plaza area was essentially a donor to the other two extensions.

a TDD with special assessments and a sales tax on future extensions would have three significant problems:

1) the pro forma would have to be based on future development and economic activity
2) you would have to aggressively confront the lack of voter support for this model along good transit corridors
3) federal funding would be required, and future extensions are less likely to stand on their own for new/small starts scoring

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby WoodDraw » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:07 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
WoodDraw wrote:That's also 100% correct, and I can't figure out why people don't understand it. The best thing for Kansas City is to slowly do rail out to places that want it, and make them pay. It will urbanize the area, and it's one of the few scenarios across the US that is actually working.


the "value capture" model stops working with the UMKC and riverfront extensions -- not enough value to cover the capital cost -- if you want the conservative calculation used thus far. it only worked on a larger scale in 2014 because the district went all the way to the stadiums and the midtown/plaza area was essentially a donor to the other two extensions.

a TDD with special assessments and a sales tax on future extensions would have three significant problems:

1) the pro forma would have to be based on future development and economic activity
2) you would have to aggressively confront the lack of voter support for this model along good transit corridors
3) federal funding would be required, and future extensions are less likely to stand on their own for new/small starts scoring


I mostly agree. Eventually you have to get city wide support for city wide infrastructure. I question more than most the the smartness of doing anything more than the UMKC expansion.

I still say it is quicker most days to walk than take the streetcar, unless you hit it just right. Let's focus on getting traffic off main, expand the streetcar into an actually useful urban transit method, and then focus on feeding people into transit points. And let's not forget the benefit of MAX lines as opposed to focusing on expensive rail. Rail is very rarely better than busses without ROW.

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby flyingember » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:04 pm

It's quicker to walk only if the train is running slow, the weather is good and you don't have weight, kids, a disability, follow crosswalk signals. I have tried it. If can be quicker but for most people it's probably not.

You talk about MAX. This map shows the problem with our bus system, we have built four bus systems rather than one inter connected network.
https://twitter.com/flyingember/status/ ... 0538924032

The lines are rough but these are the actual bus routes today. It only works if you live near or want to go downtown. We don't need to support everywhere but routes shouldn't just end because you crossed the river of the state line. Each line is an actual route, the orange bulge represents the northland route ending point. Why does someone from gladstone or historic NE have to transfer busses to get to the plaza? we don't have a long distance problem, we have a short distance problem

If we're going to use MAX as a train replacement/precursor we need to build city-spanning spines. One single MAX line from Ward Parkway and 435 to Zona Rosa would be a great next step for the bus system. This would allow a larger number of bus rides to be two transfers rather than transfer downtown too.
Last edited by flyingember on Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby earthling » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:07 pm

flyingember wrote:If we're going to use MAX as a train replacement/precursor we need to build city-spanning spines. One single MAX line from Ward Parkway and 435 to Zona Rosa would be a great next step for the bus system. This would allow a larger number of bus rides to be two transfers rather than transfer downtown too.


That's about as good of a tactical solution as any for now.

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby flyingember » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:11 pm

So we know that people vote for politicians they relate to and issues and items that they have experience with. Pretty basic.

New ridership stats from the city
https://twitter.com/KCMO/status/885576565660282880

In the past year the number of people citywide who have rode the streetcar increase from 23% to 44%.

the 4th went from 42% to 60%

north/south city suburbs
the 6th went from 27% to 48%, a near majority
The 1st and 2nd average went from 19.5% to 42.5%.

The east side 3rd is dramatically lower going from 23% to 29%
the east side 5th is even lower, 18% to 25%

By no means does this mean the August ballot item will pass, but it does show more people will have something to base a decision off of. And it's much better situation to have educated voters deciding.

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby KCPowercat » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:56 am

So just to be clear...we are voting for a Chastain petition...question.#2 on August 8th?

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby DaveKCMO » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:58 am

KCPowercat wrote:So just to be clear...we are voting for a Chastain petition...question.#2 on August 8th?


yes! it's not the first time! ;-)

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby flyingember » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:07 am

Second time in a year. His last one was on the 2016 presidential election.

One or two before that one (2012 or 2014?) was extremely poorly written and the city killed it, he sued and the state supreme court threw out everything except the tax on the ballot. He started actually working with the city after that happened.

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby KCPowercat » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:27 am

Just clarifying....I agree Dave.

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby JBmidtown » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:45 am

I'm going to vote yes and then sit back and watch the hilarious shit show unfold as Chastain's ego draws so deep inside himself he implodes.

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby ULCajun » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:02 am

So we will be out of country for this election (starting the 6th). Is there some way we can still vote?

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby kboish » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:48 am

ULCajun wrote:So we will be out of country for this election (starting the 6th). Is there some way we can still vote?


You have two options

Absentee Voting In Person
In-person voting begins six weeks prior to each election and is available at the Election Board absentee office (Suite 2800- level B) at Union Station from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Monday through Friday. The Election Board is also open the Saturday before each election from 8:00 to noon. Please bring identification with you when voting in person. The deadline to vote absentee in-person is 5:00 p.m. the Monday before each Election Day.



Absentee Voting by Mail
If you wish to vote by mail, you may request your application for a ballot up to 10 weeks in advance of the election but not later than the Wednesday before the election.

Please note that all ballots must be notarized (except those submitted by an incapacitated or confined voter*), signed and received by the Election Board no later than 7 p.m. on election day. Ballots received after the deadline will not be counted.


https://www.kceb.org/voters/absenteevoting/

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby ULCajun » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:34 am

Thank you, we work a block away from union station so will just head over there one day for lunch :D

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby DaveKCMO » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:40 pm

chastain guest editorial: http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/reade ... 04592.html
facebook live with the man himself 4pm today: https://www.facebook.com/kansascitystar ... =3&theater

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby Highlander » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:12 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:chastain guest editorial: http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/reade ... 04592.html
facebook live with the man himself 4pm today: https://www.facebook.com/kansascitystar ... =3&theater



"Presently, the streetcar line is largely a novelty for tourists rather than an improved transit system that can directly benefit the people."

From the pen of Clay himself. What an Ass. It (the downtown streetcar) cannot be both "largely a novelty for tourists" and "whet the appetite for rail". If it whets the appetite among Kansas Citians, it being used by Kansas Citians.

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby beautyfromashes » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:44 pm

^ He also said that he understood that there could be large changes to the voter approved plan and would not fight those changes as long as they were still for rail and bus transportation. Went so far as to say he made a mistake to fight changes by the council in his previously approved initiative. That's enough for me.

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby flyingember » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:20 am

He lost the last lawsuit he filed.

It's not everyday you get shot down by the state supreme court.

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby DaveKCMO » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:27 am

one of the latest ones (2017) was actually thrown out (one more is pending). the MO supreme court ruling was 2016.

litigious AF.

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby DaveKCMO » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:35 am

the kansas city regional transit alliance endorses question 2: http://kcrta.org/2017/08/02/276/

The Board of the Kansas City Regional Transit Alliance supports Question 2 on the August 8 ballot in Kansas City, Missouri.

In complete contrast to Question 1 on the same ballot, Question 2 is a petition initiative that supports streetcar, as well as providing connections with a fleet of electric buses.

This proposal is drastically different from others offered by Clay Chastain, all of which we have opposed in the past.

- It does not divert funding from the city’s 3/8th cent sales tax, which is essential for maintaining core bus service. Instead, it creates new funding sources for bus operations.
- It includes a scope of work that can be scaled to available revenue – assuming federal funds are made available – through a “build what you can” caveat that would allow progress to continue in reasonable phases.
- It provides a strong response to Question 1, an unreasonable anti-streetcar position on the same ballot.


;-)

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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Postby flyingember » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:27 am

He apparently wants KCATA support.

At the same time his plan ignores their efforts with CNG and calls for electric busses. I like the idea of electric busses but to get an endorsement one would think he would piggyback on their efforts.


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