Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Transportation topics in KC

How will you vote on Chastain's LRT proposal?

I will vote Yes!
83
56%
I will vote No!
39
26%
I don't vote!
8
5%
I don't live in KCMO
18
12%
 
Total votes: 148

flyingember
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by flyingember »

The Chastain petition is ordinance 190331

Interestingly the ordinance doesn't exactly match the earlier posts. And it looks to be his largest plan yet, which makes it ever more unrealistic to do.

He wants to replace every city bus with an electric one. It has an interesting piece of text mentioning "diesel" busses but not the CNG ones.
Build a dedicated lane self-driving bus route from the airport to Union Station
Nonstop bus service from Union Station to Cerner
Nonstop bus service from Union Station to Ward Parkway shops
Nonstop bus service from Union Station to Brookside
Implements a 15 person self-driving mini shuttle system.
Builds a wireless streetcar system on a weird route. It goes to PV Park, Westport UMKC/Rockhurst, Brookside and the Zoo.
A second wireless streetcar line that basically follows the Linwood streetcar plan that went to hospital hill
Remove all cars from PV Park
Removes all cars on Troost from Cleaver to Meyer
And don't forget the gondolas. The convention center to PV park this time.

You can tell how hard this will go down just by looking where it would go. He basically ignores the east side yet again. Let's be honest, he purposefully mentions amenities for rich white people. It mentions Arrowhead and the Zoo and only goes to Troost to mention Rockhurst.
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alejandro46
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by alejandro46 »

The earlier the better KC replaces diesel buses where feasible with electric ones. The operating cost is a lot less per mile, but the infrastructure and initial purchase cost are $$$. KCI already has BYD electric shuttle buses in operation. Proterra and BYD both make longer range (~250 usable miles) buses but they are, again, not cheap and you'd want to install charging infrastructure as well, there are options for overhead charging as well as overnight charging when out of service.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... erra-s-ceo

However, Clay's plan isn't going to fly, no way. He has good intentions but is a persona non grata here in KC as far as I'm concerned.
Last edited by alejandro46 on Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
flyingember
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by flyingember »

Here's the costs

https://twitter.com/kclightrail/status/ ... 6931341312

$3.4 billion but the taxes would raise $50 million per year.

Add 50% for financing and it would take 102 years to pay off the plan.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by WoodDraw »

He has good intentions? Color me unconvinced.
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alejandro46
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by alejandro46 »

flyingember wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:25 am Here's the costs

https://twitter.com/kclightrail/status/ ... 6931341312

$3.4 billion but the taxes would raise $50 million per year.

Add 50% for financing and it would take 102 years to pay off the plan.
Sales taxes are regressive and KC already has a high tax burden. If you add in various CID taxes things get crazy very quickly.
WoodDraw wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:26 am He has good intentions? Color me unconvinced.
Fair enough. I was just going with a "Transit = good" comment. He also is a crazy, attention hungry nut with these stupid plans who keeps running for mayor when everyone just wants him to go away.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by WoodDraw »

I feel sorry for him because he obviously has an unhealthy mental obsession with these weird plans that's broken up his marriage and made him ostracized in the city he's obsessed with.

The dude needs help.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by langosta »

If Clay can get a transit initiative on the ballot every other year, it can’t be that hard to do so. Why don’t we make our own KCRAG transit petition for kicks and giggles? I propose we call it the

Kansas
City
Regional
Accessibility and
Growth Plan.

Barryroad/North Oak BRT, Linwood BRT or Streetcar, Indepence Ave BRT or Streetcar, Brookside/Waldo Streetcar.
Last edited by langosta on Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:59 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by WoodDraw »

langosta wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:45 am If Clay can get a transit initiative on the ballot every other year, it can’t be that hard to do so. Why don’t we make our own KCRAG transit petition for kicks and giggles? I propose the

Kansas
City
Regional
Accessibility and
Growth Plan
With backronym skills like that I thinking you're now required to serve in Congress. Apologies.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by DaveKCMO »

langosta wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:45 am Barryroad/North Oak BRT, Linwood BRT or Streetcar, Indepence Ave BRT or Streetcar, Brookside/Waldo Streetcar.
This planning is already underway. You just need to find the moneys, and that won't come from KCMO alone.

REGIONAL FUNDING / BI-STATE / 2024 DO OR DIE
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by normalthings »

DaveKCMO wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:35 pm
langosta wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:45 am Barryroad/North Oak BRT, Linwood BRT or Streetcar, Indepence Ave BRT or Streetcar, Brookside/Waldo Streetcar.
This planning is already underway. You just need to find the moneys, and that won't come from KCMO alone.

REGIONAL FUNDING / BI-STATE / 2024 DO OR DIE
Silly Silly. If we make the vehicles look like steam boats, the Steam Boat Legacy fund will pay for everything /s
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by flyingember »

Clearly (sarcasm) people will flock to vote for his plan because it has VIRTUAL RAIL!
Virtual Rail (train-like self-guided bus operating in dedicated lane employing signal priority technology)
Who needs steam boats when we can use technology to replace tracks.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by langosta »

The increased voter turn out yesterday will make it much harder for Clay to keep doing this.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by DaveKCMO »

langosta wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:27 pm The increased voter turn out yesterday will make it much harder for Clay to keep doing this.
The signature threshold will double to over 3,000. Unfortunately, the current Council will have to grapple with his latest initiative. I'm sure it will end up on the November 2019 ballot.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by langosta »

DaveKCMO wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:35 pm
langosta wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:27 pm The increased voter turn out yesterday will make it much harder for Clay to keep doing this.
The signature threshold will double to over 3,000. Unfortunately, the current Council will have to grapple with his latest initiative. I'm sure it will end up on the November 2019 ballot.
Would they have the power to reshape the petition into something they could actually implement?
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by DaveKCMO »

langosta wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:45 pm
DaveKCMO wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:35 pm
langosta wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:27 pm The increased voter turn out yesterday will make it much harder for Clay to keep doing this.
The signature threshold will double to over 3,000. Unfortunately, the current Council will have to grapple with his latest initiative. I'm sure it will end up on the November 2019 ballot.
Would they have the power to reshape the petition into something they could actually implement?
Yes, but they won't. Why encourage him?
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by kcjak »

Last time they (Clay himself!) approached me to sign a petition he was asking people if they would sign 'to support better public transportation and parks' and people signed without reading or asking questions.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by normalthings »

Clay’s petition is back on the City Council docket. Is the Council able to “edit” the wording as to remove references to a gondolas and/or make the plan more realistic?
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by DaveKCMO »

normalthings wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:19 am Clay’s petition is back on the City Council docket. Is the Council able to “edit” the wording as to remove references to a gondolas and/or make the plan more realistic?
They can, but they risk a lawsuit. I'm sure they'll just leave it as is and pray it doesn't pass.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by kboish »

This is the kind of thing that has trained Kansas Citians to vote no on rail transit.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by flyingember »

DaveKCMO wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:29 am
normalthings wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:19 am Clay’s petition is back on the City Council docket. Is the Council able to “edit” the wording as to remove references to a gondolas and/or make the plan more realistic?
They can, but they risk a lawsuit. I'm sure they'll just leave it as is and pray it doesn't pass.
The petition already accounted for that. It includes text that allows the project to legally only build as much as funding allows.

So the council doesn't need to remove anything up front, if it should pass they can just choose which items can be funded and do that.
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