Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Transportation topics in KC

How will you vote on Chastain's LRT proposal?

I will vote Yes!
83
56%
I will vote No!
39
26%
I don't vote!
8
5%
I don't live in KCMO
18
12%
 
Total votes: 148

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ShowMeKC
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by ShowMeKC »

Something I found very interesting about the Smart Moves plan, is that no light rail will go through Union Station, instead, it will go through the South Loop.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by tat2kc »

Um, don't you have to go through the south loop to get to Union Station?
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by ShowMeKC »

No, I'm saying they aren't really even going to go through streets, two lines will come in near the Paseo and Broadway Bridges, down the highways (unless one goes down broadway), then will turn into the south loop, and intersect there.

One will come in from Bruce R Watkins, another from I70 and it will continue west towards KCK.

None of these lines are shown to be going to, or even near Union Station. They are all going underneath Bartle Hall, and the North/South roads on the south loop highway.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by KCMax »

ShowMeKC wrote: Something I found very interesting about the Smart Moves plan, is that no light rail will go through Union Station, instead, it will go through the South Loop.
Does Smart Moves incorporate light rail at all? I didn't think it did.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by kard »

KCMax wrote: Does Smart Moves incorporate light rail at all? I didn't think it did.
Hasn't been decided yet.  They toss the word "possibly" and "could" around a lot.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by ShowMeKC »

From what I've seen of their plan, it is included, but it's called "Freeway Flyers".
And according to their statements on Chastain's proposal, I'm sure it eventually will include Light Rail.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by GRID »

ShowMeKC wrote: From what I've seen of their plan, it is included, but it's called "Freeway Flyers".
And according to their statements on Chastain's proposal, I'm sure it eventually will include Light Rail.
Freeway Flyers are suburban express coach buses.  There are no plans for light rail in smartmoves, not before the year 2030 anyway...
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by ShowMeKC »

Ah ok, my bad then... We really do need to get on the ball for light rail... Even 2015 is too far off for light rail. By 2030, KCMO could be busting 600k and the metro would really be pushing it's population ahead.

We at least need a line from KCI to DT. The Northland commuters are all restricted to 6 over 3 bridges to reach the urban core.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by GRID »

As I type this, my kids (ages 6 and 10) are arguing over whether or not the metrolink in StL and Sky Train in Vancouver is light rail or heavy rail.  The younger one is actually winning as I listen in because he is saying that the Sky Train is "not light rail because it doesn't have the wires".  I have totally warped my kids I think. ;)
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by ddw334umkc »

We'll know the verdict in three days!
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by GRID »

ddw334umkc wrote: We'll know the verdict in three days!
Don't get your hopes up, it's going to fail, as it should.

But I think MARC and others might, just might, be getting a bit of a hint that a metrowide transit tax is not going to pass for a bus only system...
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by ddw334umkc »

Okay, let's for a moment say that Chastain's plan is defeated at the polls. What are the odds of a private entity or corporation coming in, acquiring the land, and develop this thing without it ever having to go to the voters? 

Or better yet, how could we strongly influence MARC to implement the rail into the SmartMoves deal? SmartMoves sounds like a decent plan in terms of condensing ridership and solidifying bus routes throughout the metro, but for some odd reason they do not want us to have light rail right now. Commuter rail would be sort of a success (for workers coming to and from the suburbs), but light rail would have mass appeal that would attract all, even casual riders.  What would be the determing factors for MARC to not want light rail and what can be done to remedy this?  Maybe a reputable outside source would come in (on MARC or ATA's behalf, of course), do a series a feasibility studies pertaining to light rail, and then make a report or a recommendation plan such as the Sasaki and Kasarda plans.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by bahua »

ddw334umkc wrote: Okay, let's for a moment say that Chastain's plan is defeated at the polls. What are the odds of a private entity or corporation coming in, acquiring the land, and develop this thing without it ever having to go to the voters? 
What are the chances of someone coming in, purchasing all the land, financing all the construction, training, hiring, and facilitation of a rail system, at the total cost of multiple billions of dollars, and then selflessly charging tiny fractions of the operating cost, much less the initial investment?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there's no chance of that happening.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by tat2kc »

Even if it does pass, and funding is available (doubtful), it will be years before they break ground and actually begin construction. There will have to be condemnation hearings, approvals from various state and Federal agencies to cross the interstates and the river, etc. Folks who are loosing land will sue, and that will need to be settled.  Best case scenario would still put the first train moving no earlier than 2015.  Don't bet on anything faster.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by kard »

GRID wrote: Don't get your hopes up, it's going to fail, as it should.

But I think MARC and others might, just might, be getting a bit of a hint that a metrowide transit tax is not going to pass for a bus only system...
Were there public input meetings back when the SmartMoves plan was being formulated?  How was that plan arrived at?
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by BigBill33 »

GRID wrote: Amazingly, not as much as you probably think, certainly no more than cars, buses and trucks need.  I'll post pics of the Salt Lake City and San Diego systems soon and show you.
The LRT in Denver can make a 90 degree turn in a normal downtown intersection (2 lanes each way).  The LRT in downtown parallels traffic.

Has Chastain thought about the cost of new bridge construction, new lanes, undeground tunnel construction, etc.?
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by enough »

i just took the poll and see that 64.9 percent will vote for question 2.  i'm just glad the poll isn't valid.  

passage of question 2 would result in serious cutbacks to the current transit system.  what's more, it would jeopardize regional transit by making the regional transit tax (which is likely to be on the ballot in missouri counties in 2007 or 2008) a lot harder to pass in jackson, clay, and platte counties.  that's because kansas city voters in those counties would see the regional tax as a *new* transit tax instead of simply continuation of the existing 3/8 cent tax.

the best thing about this whole ballot initiative is that is has gotten people thinking and talking about light rail.  if you're serious about wanting light rail -- or street cars or anything other than buses -- then vote *no* on question 2.  then get on the phone to your elected officials and tell them kansas city needs rail transit.  

smart moves isn't set in stone.  it can and should be revised to include a commitment to rail transit before it goes to the voters.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by chingon »

i voted for the plan, knowing full well it won't pass, and frankly, i know it's a shit plan.  consider my vote a warning to the ata and marc and smart moves...
i do want to go on record as saying i don't think we should worry that much about bussing cutbacks.  what are our commuter ridership percentages, 1.2%?  i feel like completely dismantling a service that is only used by 1.2% of the population is fine.  in fact, if some one put up a plan that would increase commuter ridership by 2 or 3 times using only light rail for even a portion of their commute, i'd vote for eliminating busses altogether to fund it.
transit is about serving the greatest number.  1.2% (or whatever it is) is pretty much insignificant.  it reveals an undeniable failure on the part of the ata to provide any real benefit to the city.  marc and smart moves are aparently too spineless to call them out, and too ineffectual to really overhaul the system.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by warwickland »

because i know this wont pass or the city council will squash it, im driving back 250 miles early to vote yes. i want this to be close enough to where one can point and say - look, even a bad plan got this many votes, what would happen if a good plan was put forward? in any case, i feel like we should have never been in this position, but we are and this is how im 'playing' it. i want the city, MARC, etc to understand that a buildout of a few "BRT-lite" lines by 2015 (or whatever) is not going to cut it...they need only to look to omaha at this point...

not to mention riding around on metrolink for several days has re-kindled a fire in my gut.
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Re: Clay Chastain coming back with light rail

Post by DaveKCMO »

so who here would actually have changed their real votes if the tram was not in the picture? is that the only thing that makes this a "bad plan"? clay himself said that he based it on the official city plan from 2001 (except for the tram and electric buses).
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