We are wasting so much time, money and effort on yet another bistate plan...

[kard]

Hey, Bill, welcome to the forum!

The politics and ill-will across the state line makes things very difficult.  The affluence is not spread evenly across that line, so often when any "bi-state" plan is suggested, it's met with skepticism by those who feel they would be paying and not getting a return.  It's silly--it's an imaginary boundary that has created some real effects that are hard to overcome.  It's silly the way we hate each other here.

There actually is an organization like you describe called MARC - Mid-America Regional Council.  http://www.marc.org/  I'm only somewhat familiar with what they do, but they're currently working on a larger scale bus transit system that would be funded with a Bi-state tax.

That said--tell everyone you meet here about what Denver has done.  We love our cars here way too much and are afraid to even consider other modes of transport.  Here, busses are scary things you get mugged on and that poor people ride.  A lot of people don't fully know that it's OK to ride them.

[BigBill33]

Denver is still in the midst of a transportation boom especially with the current T-Rex project - http://www.t-rexproject.com - as well as many other projects around the state.  "The T-REX project is adding 19 miles of light rail and improving 17 miles of highway through southeast Denver, Aurora, Greenwood Village, Centennial and Lone Tree."  Not only that, it was constructed using a design build and completing it in six years!  I think the Grandview Triangle project will still be under construction when this is completed!

Denver had one major issue that struck the need to do all of this - air quality and federal highway funds; the KC metro area doesn't quite have this problem, but there could be!

However, with all that said, Denver has had it's share of problems!  First, politics - Colorado has a very conservative governor who is not a big time proponent of transit.  Second, we have leaders of conservative think tanks in Golden and Boulder who persuade the electorate to vote against projects focusing only on the monetary increase in taxes.  Third - people still like to drive, although this is changing with increased ridership on LRT and busses.

Denver finally passed RTD's FasTracks initiative and is able to get underway with improvements and new LRT lines, but in the past there were failed attempts at doing this with big campaign financing and support from Jon Caldera, an anti-growth, Independence Institute, conservative, Boulder-ite!!

I am well aware of MARC as I grew up with a relative who is a transportation planner for DRCOG.  But actually I was thinking about RTD (Regional Transportation District - www.rtd-denver.com); which is a special district that is a quasi-public/private agency that provides transit services in the Denver region, although the district is growing north near Longmont and Boulder, west to Central City and other mountain towns close in, south to Parker, and east to DIA.  Many United and airport employees working at DIA take the bus to work and most times those buses are jam packed with workers; another idea to sell to KC/MCI workers for improved transit!

During rush hour (morning and night) in Denver, the freeways are packed with cars AND express buses that are packed.  The LRT lines are running with packed cars (2-3 LRT cars) running out of downtown.  Sure there are crime problems, but many buses and LRT now have transit police and cameras, so there isn't that much crime on the transit system itself.

My impression of KC is that the politicians are narrow minded when it comes to forward thinking - and that is on both sides of the state line; wouldn't it be great to take a LRT from a park-n-ride near Sprint to the Chiefs game?  That's what happens now in Denver, for Broncos games that is!  And I think the fare is between $4-6.

Ok, now that you all know where my heart lies and that I am a big proponent of transit!!

Bill

[warwickland]

apparently, JoCo and lame leadership on both sides is just enough to hurt kc in the area of transit. Denver and STL had just enough advantages to rise above the problems, while KC came up just short, tough break.

[KCDevin]

Just tell Johnson County and any other counties/cities that want to hurt us to stfu... Just forget them... If we must, just act as a seperate entity from Kansas as much as possible. If a city from Kansas wants to help us and have us help them, that is fine, as long as it doesn't hurt Kansas City in the urban area...

[KCMax]

In other words, KC should put JoCo on its "ignore list." That seems to be the answer to all of life's problems.

[shinatoo]

In other words, KC should put JoCo on its "ignore list." That seems to be the answer to all of life's problems.

I don't know if ignore is the answer. In this disfunctional relationship, Kansas is the abusive husband and Missouri is the battered wife. KC is to the point that it has been told so many times by JoCo that it is worthless that it has started to believe it, started to believe that it can't do anything on its own. Time for KCMO to stand up for itself and do whats right for it, no matter what JoCo says. Build Light rail, if JoCo wants on board, after it's up and running, fine, but we set the rules. What ever we do about the stadium, fine, JoCo can come spend there money in KCMO. The thing that kills me is the MAJORITY of people who say that hanging on to TSC is a bad idea are people who don't have a vote. To which I just want to say "I love you man, but you need to BUTT OUT."

KCMO is stronger, bigger, richer, more historic, has better infrastructure, and has more culture than JoCo and should BE IN CHARGE. Become the leader you should be KCMO, everyone else will follow.

[shinatoo]

Just so everyone knows, I didn't mean that to bash JoCo, they are obviously very successful in many ways that people measure success. I just want KCMO to be its own person, so to speak.

[KCMax]

Just because you don't have a vote doesn't mean you don't have an interest. I still pay the Jackson County sales tax every week, and it matters greatly to me where our sports teams play. I don't get to vote on the matter, but it still affects me, and many others in the metro area that are non-Jackson County residents.

[shinatoo]

That like saying that you have a say in how I run my buisness because you buy a wicket from me every week.

If I'm a smart buisness man I will listen to you, but I still should do what is best for my buisness.

Diffrence is, JoCo isn't filling out a comment card, they are screaming in the lobby and running a picket line out front.

[BVC]

Just so everyone knows, I didn't mean that to bash JoCo, they are obviously very successful in many ways that people measure success. I just want KCMO to be its own person, so to speak.

You make a point though, if Kansas City is the focal point that makes the metro go 'round, act like it.  Stand up and take some fucking risks like the Sprint Center.  The thing is, for every bold move like the Sprint Center, there are always several steps backwards that leave people in awe of the so called leadership's stupidity.

[warwickland]

edit: i strayed from the topic. 

time to write letters to our representatives.

[warwickland]

old old news-

this thing feels like its dead as a doornail.

kansas legislature summary-

H 2751                 
Bill by Taxation                                                               
Enacting the Kansas and Missouri regional investment district compact.         
Effective date: Statute Book.                                                   
01/27/2006 H Introduced -HJ 1134                                               
01/30/2006 H Referred separately to Taxation, Interstate Cooperation -HJ 1139   
02/01/2006 H Withdrawn from Taxation; Withdrawn from Interstate Cooperation;   
             Referred separately to Taxation, Transportation -HJ 1152           
02/08/2006 H Hearing: Fri., 2/17/2006, 9:00 am, Rm 519-S 



"This version of the legislation also creates a sunset provision calling for any tax passed by the voters to end fifteen (15) years after its passage. This version also states that any county commission looking to place a ballot measure before its voters must do so with a two-thirds majority; and that the ballot measure must be passed in no less than Johnson and Wyandotte Counties in Kansas, and Jackson County in Missouri, before the tax could become effective. It requires all members of the Commission (the MARC Board) to be elected officials; requires all members of the Oversight Committee to be approved by the chief elected official of the City or County from which they are elected; and requires regular (annual) reporting to state legislators on the financial affairs of the district and the operating statistics of the implemented regional transit system."
                 
theres other fun stuff that kansas has done to the bill:

http://www.kctransit.org/news/a20060315.htm

[KCMax]

The KS Legislature is in recess until next week when it will wrap things up.

[enough]

the regional funding initiative for transit is dead for this year in kansas.  it was passed april 6 in the missouri senate and has been introduced in the missouri house, but final passage is doubtful since it couldn't go into effect without corresponding kansas legislation.  expect regional funding bills to be reintroduced for next year's legislative sessions after everything's been thoroughly discussed and reworked as needed to get broader consensus.

[warwickland]

topeka, kay o'connor, and half of johnson county must be proud of themselves right now.

they can throw a party--maybe they can dump gasoline into indian creek or burn photographs of busses and light rail.


---

really, i'm a little dissapointed with MARC...just a little... but, the vacuum is elsewhere.

[BigBill33]

MARC has some political influence with the state and local governments, but eventually it is up to the elected officials of both states to pass law and allocate funding of transit.  For the most part MARC and any other council of governments around the US are merely consultants!

Bill

[warwickland]

^
yes, i had just hoped they had been a bit more aggressive, and had worked with the knowledge that kansas would be a problem. that approach doesnt jibe with basic regional planning principles, however and i shouldnt blame them.

the city of KCMO needs to get a modern streetcar line up and running around downtown and between downtown and the plaza to set a precedent, an example that would lead to support for a comprehensive regional LRT and BRT system. this is how smaller metros (such as charlotte and memphis) have approached light rail, and it has been generally successful. kansas city on the other hand attempted to take the route of cities with a million more people, and not surprisingly, it hasnt worked thus far.

[Burton]

Me in the MARC office library last week looking at all the work they put into rapid-rail & light-rail plans between 1975 and 2001, and what we could have had...

[chingon]

i think, as a citizen, that light rail or trolley cars are most suited to the population spine of kcmo, and that these transit systems should be  organized and funded by the city of kcmo, without even the slightest regard for johnson county or the outlying suburbs.  a line from vivion and oak to 75th and wornall would go a long way towards meeting our needs, and fomenting development in the central core.  in 5-10 years i think there would be a marked migration towards the areas served by swift convenient trains, and we could vote to tell joco and east jackson county to kiss our collective ass when they come knocking at our door begging for inclusion.  this much is certain, and i know i'm preaching to the choir here:  if kc fails to develop viable mass transit, its future is bleak.  and i think it is solely kcmo's responsibility.  seeking regional solutions to the transit crisis in this metro, only to have the door slammed in our face, is silly.  give joco enough rope to hang itself, and let them.

[shinatoo]

chigon, I love you.

You are so on the money.