I-70

[GRID]

You are talking about the same dept of transportation that is building this massive overdesigned clusterfuck, I have never seen such a poor design with such a massive footprint anyplace except maybe a rural turnpike with toll booths.  I understand that is what this "used" to be, but why replace it with the same thing only larger when it's not a toll exit anymore? This should be a simple diamond interchange.

http://www.k7andi70interchange.org/news ... 17_WEB.pdf

Look at the 2 mile long exits kdot is building for 75th.  That project even includes tunnels.   TUNNELS on a low volume exit ramp!  There are almost no delays in JoCo and they are trying to design highways to houston standards with weaving ramps and CD lanes everywhere so you never have to tap your brakes even at five pm on a weekday.  I have never seen a tunnels in such a situation in all my miles driven and cities visited.  All I can say is that Kdot has a lot of money to throw at what amounts to a small collection of important highways (those around the KC area), and they are all about high speed movement of cars no matter what it takes.

I guess that's good as it's keeping kc one of the least congested cities on the planet.

But, I don't see any kind of urban planning design influence coming to this project either.

[GRID]

Can somebody tell me which of these designs is being built?

http://www.modot.org/kansascity/major_p ... dnotes.pdf

http://www.modot.org/kansascity/major_p ... 020911.pdf

They quite different designs, both are on MoDot's website.  I think the 40 & 435 interchange is nearly complete, so is it a half diamond or does it have cloverleaf ramps?

[NDTeve]

There are delays on I-35 every morning and night.

[chrizow]

There are delays on I-35 every morning and night.

due to construction or the occasional accident.  i am not sure i've encountered true congestion-related traffic in the KC area after the re-tooling of the grandview triangle, but then again i drive on the highways in rush hour about three times per year.

[GRID]

There are delays on I-35 every morning and night.

Define "delays"

I think on average there is a 0 minute to 5 minute delay on I-35 during peak hours along the entire 20 mile stretch to or from Downtown and Olathe.  Check out the ITS time travels on KCScout.net during a typical peak hour.   They barely change.

I actually did a travel time study on I-35 for about a month with a consulting firm driving up and down I-35 during rush our with a computer attached to the vehicle's speedometer.  The results were simply there is no traffic in KC unless there is a major wreck or heavy snowfall.  In KC, you can nearly always get around a crash (if you even need to) because the surface streets are typically wide open.

The same can be said with I-70 east.  I never did an official study, but I drove it every day for six years.  Delays rarely exceeded 5-10 minutes and most of the time it was under five, just like I-35, especially if you don't drive like a moron, which is KC's biggest creator of the delays it does have, not volume.

When I did that study on 35, it took all the self control I could possibly muster up to not just pass people and go around them, I had to just drive slow with flow of traffic even though the density of the traffic was low and I could easily get around everybody and get through the corridor with almost no slowdowns.  People just drive really slow and really far apart in KC during "rush hour", almost manufacturing some sort of fake delay.  It's bizarre to say the least.

For example, here in DC, when the freeways clog up, there is no getting around it.  It's pure volume and there is nowhere to go and the surface streets are generally worse than the freeways so forget about alt routes.  A cop pulls somebody over and it can easily trigger a 45 minute "delay".  It can easily take 15-30 minutes to get from one exit to the the next in normal peak hour traffic.  In KC you can take away an entire lane of an already narrow interstate (like 70) or close an entire bridge (paseo) and it does very little.  And that's on the busy highways.  Other highways around KC (70 in KCK for example) carry so little traffic that they could lose 2 of their 3 lanes and still not have huge backups (it may back up, but it won't create a 60 minute delay) that you see here daily.

This is why I think building rail outside of the RCP in KC is a waste of money unless they turn some of the freeways into rivers or something.  I drove from WAY OUT in blue springs and was downtown nearly everyday in less than 20 minutes.  Now I would probably take a train and add another 20-40 minutes to the total commute time.  But how many would do that?  Run nice coach buses to a downtown transit spine and be done with it.  Cities with trains outside of downtown have congested freeways where buses have to sit in the same traffic and taking trains takes about the same amount of time as driving or a little longer, not 2-3 times a long like they would in KC.

I rode the blue springs express bus 2-3 times a week and it took 40 minutes from the time I left home till I was in the office, again, 70 has few delays, the time added was the longer route and waiting for the bus.  A train for the same commute would be at least an hour door to door.

[pash]

.

[mean]

When I made precisely the same point in the commuter-rail thread, everybody else vehemently disagreed. Apparently "traffic" in KC means "cannot set the cruise-control at 70 and take a nap." And, according to several people on this forum, plenty of people in eastern Jackson County would rather have a much longer commute on a circuitously routed, frequently stopping commuter train than have to deal with such stressful "traffic."   :-k

I can't speak for anyone else, but the point I repeatedly tried to make was that I think it would be better to look toward the future, assume continued growth (and perhaps help stimulate growth in E. Jax rather than JoCo), and build the shit sooner rather than later. You guys wanna wait until congestion is completely screwed, fine. You're entitled to your opinion. Yes, we all know that congestion here does not exist, and what does exist is entirely because we are all retarded, small town hicks who don't know how to drive like you sophisticated folk. We get it. Still want the trains, thx.

[pash]

.

[chingon]

Face it, you defensive little rubes, people in Kansas City just don't know how to drive. Not enough people tailgate at highway speeds, so lots of them are capable of slowing down without rear-ending the car in front of them. Plus not enough people swerve back and forth between lanes like dickheads who think their errands are the most important things on earth. Also backwater boogans from KC don't speed up and slow down fast enough when advancing 15 to 25 feet to cause lurching, ecologically disastrous, wasteful and frustrating stop and go traffic...much less good and holy, "authentic", urban gridlock like you find on the freeways of cool places where the overwhelming majority of people commute via automobile everyday from the suburbs and then talk to their simple midwestern acquaintances about how lucky they are to live in pedestrian-friendly paradises where they can pretend they don't 'use cars'.
                                               

[chrizow]

[mean]

What's funny is when GRID was bitching about how people drive on 35, and complaining that he would normally just zip around everyone, I was thinking, "You're the one driving like an asshole, and I want to punch you in the dick."

Of course, this is the same guy who kept claiming he could drive from KC to St. Louis in 3 hours even after I pointed out that this would require an average highway speed of around 85mph. Safety first, kids!

[chrizow]

it's more "big city" to weave around everyone when youre commuting to the city from the sticks. 

[GRID]

I can't help it that people in KC can't drive. .

That stupid stretch of 70 between Blue Springs and Downtown had more crashes weekly than the portion of the beltway I commute on (about the same distance) which is either stopped or moving at 70-80mph nearly bumper to bumper. (it has a 55mph limit).

There is a difference between leaving some safety space and going 40mph in a 55 or 65mph zone where there is a MILE of open lane in front of you.  Driving in KC during rush hour is simply frustrating because the delays there are not caused by volume.  They are caused by morons.

Sorry if you take that personally.  Has nothing to do with where I live now.  I have always thought KC drivers were terrible.  Most are on the phone, they can't get up to highway speeds to merge if their lives depended on it (and sometimes it does) and driving slow in the left lanes is part of the driving culture there .

Oh and suburban KC to suburban StL is 3 hours.  Downtown to downtown is a little longer.

[GRID]

One more thing.  I think the jackson county commuter rail is a good idea because it's "something" and it's a good idea to preserve the corridors.

Just don't be surprised if very few people ride it.  That's all I'm saying.  If KC really wants to help commuters, then just building nice park and ride facilities and buying nice commuter coach buses that run often would do a lot more because KC has such a wide open freeway network.  Then you could take all that money for commuter rail and build a nice central city rail line or comprehensive streetcar network.

Not sure if spending a billion dollars on suburban commuter rail and 60 million on 2 miles of urban street cars makes a whole lot of sense in kc.  KC needs to install transit that encourages urban development, not suburban sprawl.

But whatever.  Do something.

[brewcrew1000]

Of course, this is the same guy who kept claiming he could drive from KC to St. Louis in 3 hours even after I pointed out that this would require an average highway speed of around 85mph. Safety first, kids!

I have made it from Lees Summit to St Louis in 3 Hours without stopping.

If you calculated odessa to Wentzville, it's only 172 miles and if you averaged 75 miles an hour, you would get there in about 2.5 hours

[mean]

Sorry, I reject the idea that the morons are any other than the folks going 80 bumper to bumper. That is fucking retarded and dangerous, and anyone who drives like that deserves to die in a fireball.

[pash]

.

[KCMax]

Missouri Transportation Department to seek toll on Interstate 70

Built at the birth of the federal interstate system more than 50 years ago, I-70 has been wearing out, no longer able to meet the demands of exploding freight and passenger traffic.

Options have ranged from a basic expansion to three lanes each way to a more elaborate project that includes segregated truck lanes.

The cost ranges anywhere from $1.5 billion up to $4 billion depending on what Missouri wants to build. However, the highway department is now focused mostly on maintenance after exhausting the Amendment 3 money that voters approved in 2004.

Amendment 3 allowed the state to borrow $2 billion by moving some motor vehicle sales taxes from the general fund to roads. The state is using that money to repay the bonds that funded the work credited for improving Missouri highways in recent years.

The KCUR report I heard this morning indicated the toll would run from Wentzville to Lee's Summit.

[NDTeve]

Didn't think that Lee's Summit bordered I-70??

[KCMax]

Didn't think that Lee's Summit bordered I-70??

Okay, up to 470/291. Is that not Lee's Summit? I thought it bordered pretty close to there. I guess its Independence.