Main Street MAX

Transportation topics in KC
flyingember
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5966
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby flyingember » Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:16 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:I've never understand the mental chasm that some people seem to think there is between Union Station and Crown Center and why we have to jog the buses to get to CC. There is a temperature controlled tube to get from one to the other, or take a short walk two blocks. Dump the jog and put Max just on Grand.

Crown Center to Union Station (bus stops) is 360 meters

http://humantransit.org/2011/04/basics- ... ansit.html
This study states that in all cities reviewed no more than 40% of riders would be willing to walk that far and in some cases it's nearly none.

I don't think we need jogs but we do need a system that works for multiple parts of downtown. 400 meters is about 4 blocks E-W and 2.5 N-S downtown. So that means stop spacing every 2-3 blocks is about the maximum distance people will walk. So a bus on Grand means users will walk about as far as Wyandotte to the west. So a streetcar direct transfer increases the reach of transit by 50% to 6 blocks west of Grand

In the end it's obviously hard to have busses every 5 streets or so and we know it hurts the bus line to add jogs. The best solution would be to cut the jog and provide 2-3 downtown circulator bus routes more like Bridj but that cover fixed routes and connect destinations to the streetcar or bus. Like one could loop clockwise Charlotte to Truman to Broadway to 9th. The 11th/12th spine pair would give coverage ~10th to 13th, Truman would give ~16th to 13th, 9th would give ~7th to 11th. So now looking north to south you've just covered most of downtown with a respectable walk from a stop and everyone has a simpler ride to get downtown.

And then the streetcar can be the streetcar.

earthling
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3902
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby earthling » Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:57 pm

^My vote is that ideally or MAX turns along Pershing between Grand/Main instead of Grand through CC. But even what is proposed in the image is far better than what they have today.

pash
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3801
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:47 am

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby pash » Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:01 pm

.
Last edited by pash on Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3715
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby beautyfromashes » Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:29 pm

Yes, if the stops on Main and Grand were directly on Pershing on the same side of the street, it would be a one block walk in front of the Westin. Also, I would think people would walk further if there was something visually engaging them along the way. For example, if there are shops along a path or an interesting streetscape, people are more likely to make a trek. Of course, that probably wouldn't be the case in front of the Westin, but there could be something that 'announces' CC is around the corner on Grand to entice people to walk that direction and make it not feel so far.

earthling
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3902
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby earthling » Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:35 pm

beautyfromashes wrote: Also, I would think people would walk further if there was something visually engaging them along the way.


We need to up the ante on Washington Sq Park between CC/US. It could be an awesome urban park. It needs a bunch more benches along the paths, gazebos and nice landscaping - maybe setup volleyball nets or soccer goals (or encourage such groups to setup there like Mill Creek Park). It could become Rittenhouse Sq in Philly. There was another thread about it talking some preliminary plans but no action yet.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Rittenh ... YQ_AUICygE

Image

Image

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 27638
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby KCPowercat » Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:57 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:I've never understand the mental chasm that some people seem to think there is between Union Station and Crown Center and why we have to jog the buses to get to CC. There is a temperature controlled tube to get from one to the other, or take a short walk two blocks. Dump the jog and put Max just on Grand.


Exactly.

pash
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3801
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:47 am

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby pash » Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:00 pm

.
Last edited by pash on Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

shinatoo
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5908
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:20 pm
Location: Lee's Summit

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby shinatoo » Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:11 pm

If the streetcar had gone all the way to the Federal reserve we wouldn't be having this conversation. Not sure why that area wasn't included in the original TDD.
Quocunque Jeceris Stabit

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 15613
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby DaveKCMO » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:21 pm

expect an indication soon that main street max resources would be redeployed to another corridor if the UMKC streetcar extension proceeds.

earthling
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3902
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby earthling » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:26 pm

I would hope down Broadway to Bside or Wornall. Streetcar is slow, not express leaning service like MAX is. That would be a big loss for Waldo/Plaza/Downtown corridor if moved elsewhere.

pash
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3801
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:47 am

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby pash » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:43 pm

.
Last edited by pash on Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

chingon
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3313
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:47 pm
Location: South Plaza

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby chingon » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:58 pm

I support moving it off Main if the extension passes. I've mentioned many times that I though Main MAX should be moved to B-WAY in the event of fixed rail service on Main. But, increasingly, I feel it would be a better use of thin resources to relocate Main MAX as to prospect or Independence Ave. if the streetcar extension passes. Or to use the resources to upgrade Troost MAX to true BRT.

In any event, I think MAIN MAX service should be discontinued entirely south of the Plaza, where it runs as a regular bus anyway. Or, alternately, and preferably, I would like to see MAX run as an express bus for the entirety of its route, regardless of where it terminates.

And I say all this as a MAX rider who lives south of the Plaza.
Last edited by chingon on Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

earthling
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3902
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby earthling » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:05 pm

Would think most who live along MAX S of Downtown would have an issue. I possibly wouldn't support streetcar to UMKC if MAX is completely out of picture from Downtown to Waldo - or some regular running bus service that leans express. I use MAX from midtown/Plaza to Bside/Waldo fairly often. Streetcar is good as a local kind of service, not commuter or express like they may try to make it if getting rid of MAX near the line.

flyingember
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5966
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby flyingember » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:59 pm

earthling wrote:Would think most who live along MAX S of Downtown would have an issue. I possibly wouldn't support streetcar to UMKC if MAX is completely out of picture from Downtown to Waldo - or some regular running bus service that leans express. I use MAX from midtown/Plaza to Bside/Waldo fairly often. Streetcar is good as a local kind of service, not commuter or express like they may try to make it if getting rid of MAX near the line.


This line serves as connector service to downtown for E-W service into more transit dependent areas.

That's why I think this bus service won't be going away from south of UMKC. I would imagine it gets completely rerouted north of the plaza. It would be really easy to connect to the train and then follow Broadway into downtown, for example.

User avatar
smh
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2677
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:40 pm
Location: Central Loop

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby smh » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:07 pm

earthling wrote:Streetcar is good as a local kind of service, not commuter or express like they may try to make it if getting rid of MAX near the line.


I'm curious what makes you say this. Would a streetcar not be as good, if not better than MAX currently? Why can it not operate as commuter? Is there a reason beyond it not going to Waldo?

pash
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3801
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:47 am

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby pash » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:57 pm

.
Last edited by pash on Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

chingon
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3313
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:47 pm
Location: South Plaza

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby chingon » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:33 pm

earthling wrote:Would think most who live along MAX S of Downtown would have an issue. I possibly wouldn't support streetcar to UMKC if MAX is completely out of picture from Downtown to Waldo - or some regular running bus service that leans express. I use MAX from midtown/Plaza to Bside/Waldo fairly often. Streetcar is good as a local kind of service, not commuter or express like they may try to make it if getting rid of MAX near the line.


I don't think anyone (except, sort of, me) is suggesting anything like that.

And my point was really that MAX isn't even express service south of the Plaza anyway. It's a local route. And the streetcar is no more local than MAX north of the Plaza. It might even have fewer stops?

earthling
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3902
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby earthling » Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:01 pm

Agree, it's an opportunity to make MAX more express with less stops, whether down Main or Broadway.

flyingember
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5966
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby flyingember » Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:51 am

earthling wrote:Agree, it's an opportunity to make MAX more express with less stops, whether down Main or Broadway.

I've been thinking about this subject

For me I can never ride he bus to work. I live within walking distance of one line and there's a stop right outside where I work. But it would take two transfers and add an hour minimum.

I have a reason beyond that right now but I bet a lot of people would ride a similar distance if instead of local service everywhere one could hop on a crosstown express route. The train could provide this in certain corridors but never all.

Expand max down to Red Bridge and replace 142. Have 10 stops. Then everyone walks, rides a bike or transfers to a local bus. I bet that line would be very popular with commuters.

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 15613
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Main Street MAX

Postby DaveKCMO » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:42 am

MAX survey says: straighten it!


Return to “Kansas City Transportation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 6 guests