Main Street MAX

[dangerboy]

Are you being serious?

Yes.  There are some emerging data showing that streets with articulated buses have higher injury and death rates for bicyclists and pedestrians.  It's especially bad in tight urban areas, when these vehicles make lane change and turning movements.    This is one of the reasons that many in London are pushing for modern double decker buses to replace the still newish bendy buses.

[GRID]

I’m not buying it.  These would be just fine running up and down grand every ten minutes all day long.  Now this sounds like a great excuse to remove the convoluted turns along the route.  MAX shouldn’t be navigating the Main and Petticoat intersection anyway.

Run them up and down Grand and use the signal pre empts.

[dangerboy]

I’m not buying it. 

http://bikeblogs.org/sf/2009/01/03/chariots-of-fire/

figures show that bendy buses cause 5.6 pedestrian injuries per million miles operated, compared with 2.6 for all other buses.

They are involved in 2.62 collisions with cyclists per million miles, compared with 0.97 for other buses. And they have 153 accidents per million miles, compared with only 87 per million on non-bendy routes.

Supposedly the European equivalent to the ITE is concerned enough to be doing a formal study of the issue.

[KCPowercat]

Is KC the only city this is not using the sleek, articulated vehicles on BRT Routes?  I’m starting to think we are.

Why can we not purchase at least a few of these buses?

why...I've never seen a packed full MAX bus as it is....do we really need to buy new bigger buses just because they look cooler?

[DaveKCMO]

why...I've never seen a packed full MAX bus as it is....

you've got to be kidding me. are they always full on every segment of every trip? no. but if you've never seen one full MAX bus ever then you're not looking very hard (or often). sounds like the people who claim the JO buses are always empty when they're likely seeing the return trip to downtown during the evening rush hour.

part of the problem with the MAX schedule is the fact that every other run ends at the plaza. the plaza only buses are usually never full unless there is a big event somewhere between there and the river. an easy fix would be to run every peak trip to waldo, but they probably don't have enough buses for that.

[dangerboy]

why...I've never seen a packed full MAX bus as it is....do we really need to buy new bigger buses just because they look cooler?

Seriously?  Rush hour is often standing room only south of Crown Center, past the Plaza, and into Brookside.  During rush hour the current MAX is close to capacity in many sections.  If you are just looking Downtown, then maybe that is why you see them empty.

[enough]

don't expect to see artics in kansas city in the foreseeable future.  buying even a few of them would necessitate building a new and longer maintenance bay at the ata garage.  that's an expense that'd be hard to justify right now.

the ata has ordered 3 hybrid electrics (from gillig) as part of their 15(?)-bus order for troost max.  they'll look like the current max buses.

there's a lot to be said for vehicle standardization since it simplifies maintenance -- think parts inventory, etc.  it's particularly important now when the ata is probably going to have to cut service by ten percent or more this year due to reduced sales tax collections and the city's budgeted "redirection" of some of the sales tax revenue to traffic signals.  (yes, they can do that from the 1/2 cent portion of the sales tax, since it's designated for transportation purposes.)

running every max trip to waldo would be pretty costly.  i don't expect that to happen.  more likely they'll change peak hour headways to 10 minutes instead of 9.

btw, i think you'll usually observe peak loads on max between linwood and armour.  it's been that way on buses on main street for literally decades.

[GRID]

That garage is big enough to handle artics.  That thing is huge.  It might require some modifications, but that’s not a very good reason.  This is 2009, you can get a part to any bus in a day and even if we ran a few different styles of buses, I’m sure they could stock parts for them.  It’s not like KC will ever have 15 different styles of buses. 

Larger buses can actually save a lot of money since driver labor and fuel are the biggest costs, especially with commuter routes.

It cost a lot more money to run another bus to Lee's Summit, especially when half the run has no passengers, then it does to run one articulated bus.

And yea, KCP, I do think the ATA should consider the more sexy buses for it MAX routes.  I think it would do more to market and get new riders to try it out than any marketing campaign ever would.

Plus, there are many times when they are needed.

[DaveKCMO]

we boarded MAX at crown center saturday afternoon and it was SRO until we got off at 39th street.

[GRID]

Another thing the Artics could do is make it easier to force people to exit the buses via the rear doors.  That's a huge pet peeve of mine.  It really slows things down to have everybody walk to the front of the bus and exit before people can begin boarding.

[enough]

^ that bothers me, too -- at least at stops where passengers are waiting to board.  but we don't need articulated buses to fix it.  we just need to get the ata to change the annunciator system to say, "now arriving 39th and main.  please exit by the rear door whenever possible."

i sent that suggestion to one of the higher-ups at the ata several weeks ago.  unfortunately, there's no formal "suggestion box" at the ata, so i have no way of knowing if it even got read.

[TheSmokinPun]

The rear exit thing has also always bothered me. Makes it a bit harder to get in and out. But I gotta get used to riding the bus more, left eye has keratoconus so even with contacts, it might bother me to drive.

[DaveKCMO]

is it just me or do the LED signs on the front of MAX buses look different as of the last week or so?

[enough]

several months ago the ata installed a multi-color led display on one max bus, 3512.  they expect to use this new type of display to differentiate between main max and troost max.  maybe you saw 3512.

[DaveKCMO]

several months ago the ata installed a multi-color led display on one max bus, 3512.  they expect to use this new type of display to differentiate between main max and troost max.  maybe you saw 3512.

must have been the one. i looked the rest of the bus over to see if the entire thing was new and it wasn't. thanks!

[trailerkid]

Can anyone explain to me the difference between MAX and a CTA bus? I've been on both, but 100% serious question.

[DaveKCMO]

Can anyone explain to me the difference between MAX and a CTA bus? I've been on both, but 100% serious question.

there is no difference between a MAX bus and any new, 40' gillig phantom being used by transit agencies across the country. that's why there needs to be a new national definition of BRT so that these half-assed things don't blur the lines. level boarding should be a requirement!

[ignatius]

MAX is supposed to be an 'express' with only specific stops.  The others can stop at any bus stop sign, just about every block or so in most areas.

I don't care what MAX is or isn't.  My most important factor for transit is that it runs as often as possible... ideally every 5-10 minutes peak time and every 10-15 non-peak.  I don't care about the mode.

Now that downtown is coming together as a hangout, I would like to see a true express bus between downtown and plaza down SW Tfwy that has only one stop in Westport.  That would be a true quick way for tourists to get to the 3 major spots in the city.  It would need to run regularly though, which would be a challenge with the budget cuts.

[DaveKCMO]

Now that downtown is coming together as a hangout, I would like to see a true express bus between downtown and plaza down SW Tfwy that has only one stop in Westport.  That would be a true quick way for tourists to get to the 3 major spots in the city.  It would need to run regularly though, which would be a challenge with the budget cuts.

why take riders away from the main street corridor? you'll never make the trip faster than private auto, so there's little point in skipping everything in between those nodes. sw trafficway may be fast, but it's no place to safely dump tourists.

alternatives:

- run a fake trolley between the the three on weekends only between memorial day and labor day -- in the same corridor.
- offer late night max service on friday/saturday (2 AM?).
- put MAX vending machines in all three places.

[ignatius]

Yeah, an express 'fake trolley' bus would be more effective with just 3-4 stops down Main - Plaza, Westport, CC, P&L.  They need to make it same price as bus service though and use it as a true express bus for rush hours and for tourists.