Main Street MAX

carfreekc · Post by **carfreekc** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:10 pm

Don't hold your breath.

I heard back from Jim Pritchett at the ATA.

I asked him: "Will the service starting this year with the CMAQ funds (the River-Crown-Plaza transit spine) be in addition to the existing 56+57
service? Will those routes be cut or changed at all once the CMAQ
project starts? If it would be in addition to, what would the headways
be with the CMAQ+56+57?"

His reply: "The ATA has deferred the River-Crown-Plaza CMAQ funded circulator for now. 56/57 won't change until: a)funding shortfalls require it; or b) BRT replaces Rt. 56."

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:58 pm

figures....thanks missouri voters.

ignatius · Post by **ignatius** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 11:48 pm

Argh! I was so looking forward to a prototype line. I don't think the City realizes how much decent transit completes the urban experience. River/Crown/Plaza will continue to be separate entities when it could instantly function as one urban mecca on foot with functional transit. Anyone who has lived in bigger cities understands what KC is so close to becoming. Those who live here (particularly the car dependent ones) don't seem to have any idea how close we are. Solid transit is the key to unlocking KC's potential.

So does this mean we are 2-3 years away if the prototype line isn't happening?

carfreekc · Post by **carfreekc** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 1:20 am

ignatius wrote:Argh! I was so looking forward to a prototype line. I don't think the City realizes how much decent transit completes the urban experience. River/Crown/Plaza will continue to be separate entities when it could instantly function as one urban mecca on foot with functional transit. Anyone who has lived in bigger cities understands what KC is so close to becoming. Those who live here (particularly the car dependent ones) don't seem to have any idea how close we are. Solid transit is the key to unlocking KC's potential.

So does this mean we are 2-3 years away if the prototype line isn't happening?

I think they were talking about 2005 for BRT up and running.

Argh.....I go back and forth about hopes for transit in KC. Some days I don't think KC will ever completely reach the potential you're talking about, ignatius, as we spread out more and more. On good days I think it's possible in my lifetime. It probably will be possible between the river and the Plaza, but not everything is in that area.

In the Star's book about our streetcars, A Splendid Ride, there is one page (p. 146) titled "Good for living, but not for transit." It was kind of depressing:

"Kansas City's streetcar operators consistently complained about the city's size--so much land area, it said, with so relatively few people. The company had to keep up a lot of track and many cars to serve this scattered population."

That was in the 1920s.

In 1940, the magazine Mass Transportation said, according to the Star book, that "Kansas City's large service area and low population density...'make for good living conditions, but...make the company among the leaders of those having the longest average hauls and the lowest revenue per mile.' "

And we've only continued to thin out since then.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu May 22, 2003 8:25 am

ATA approves the line to go from City market to 75th street. Construction starts Jan 2005 and they want it up and running by April 2005.

Cost has went way down (AWESOME) and it sounds like 10 minute buses for rush hour, with 15-20 minutes from 5am-1am.......little longer than I would like but not bad.

Awesome news......we'll give these people mass transit one way or another and then they will realize that they LIKE IT.

Features such as light priority, bigger bus stops, and high tech features like info when the next bus will be at the stop will be included as well.

Great news.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Thu May 22, 2003 9:02 am

this is a great start! if it is successful, then the smartmoves initiative will be well recieved. I hope!

kcteen · Post by **kcteen** » Thu May 22, 2003 10:06 am

That is great, great news. I just hope they do the BRT line right the first time, publicize it enough, impress everyone, and don't skimp on anything! I want to see those high-tech bus arrival signs.

Carfreekc: You mentioned about population density that Kansas city has "only continued to thin out since then [the 1920s]". Actually, Kansas city is a lot more dense today than it ever was when streetcars were running. Our "thinning out" is a common misconception. I guess it just seems like we aren't as dense today because the city extends so far in every which way and many drive to other ends of the city to work. But, population density and traffic have indeed increased since the days of streetcars--contrary to public perception.

I am worried a little about the BRT line, though. I was excited about the prospect of a BRT prototype, because that would get more people using the route to do their daily commutes and the actual BRT line would be more successful at first than if there wasn't a "transition" line. I'm just waiting for the you-know-all-too-well KC pessimists to claim BRT's a failure when the first week of passengers isn't what was expected.

-KcTeen

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu May 22, 2003 10:26 am

I've contacted the ATA to see if they have any info they could give us on the line.

Post by **dangerboy** » Thu May 22, 2003 4:37 pm

Any word on the starter line that was supposed to be up and running this month? I believe it was supposed to use regular buses with special paint and special signs at bus stops, but without the dedicated lanes, signal priority, etc.

kcteen · Post by **kcteen** » Thu May 22, 2003 4:51 pm

Dangerboy: Apparently the starter line BRT "prototype" has been "deferred" probably due to lack of funding:

carfreekc stated earlier that "The ATA has deferred the River-Crown-Plaza CMAQ funded circulator for now"

-KcTeen

Post by **dangerboy** » Thu May 22, 2003 4:54 pm

kcteen wrote: Actually, Kansas city is a lot more dense today than it ever was when streetcars were running. Our "thinning out" is a common misconception. I guess it just seems like we aren't as dense today because the city extends so far in every which way and many drive to other ends of the city to work. But, population density and traffic have indeed increased since the days of streetcars--contrary to public perception.

This statement is incorrect. The metro area is definitely less dense. The developed area is increasing several times faster than the population. From 1990-2000 the metro area population increased by about 10%. At the same time, the amount of built-up land increased by around 40%. The Brookings Institute says that the region's population density decreased by 14% ( http://www.emkf.org/pages/332.cfm )

kcteen · Post by **kcteen** » Thu May 22, 2003 5:31 pm

Dangerboy: I should have been more clear. I wasn't referring to the entire metro area. What I meant was that the area of Kansas City, MO that the immensely successful streetcar system covered until the 1950s (the more "urban" areas from rivermarket to downtown to midtown to waldo, etc) or so when it was abandoned is more dense today than it was back then. In other words, the population density around the old routes that had sufficient ridership to run years ago has actually increased. The common misconception is that we could never start another successful widescale public transportation because that area has "thinned out." It may be true that we couldn't immediately support a similar public transportation system nowadays, but that's not due to population density. It's because many that live in "urban" KC MO are dependent on traveling to work, etc outside the aforementioned "urban" KC realm.

P.S. My information comes from my memory but I initially read it in material that came out with the population studies that were released in conjunction with the failed light-rail proposals a few years ago and from talking with a urban planner from ST louis more recently.

KcTeen

ignatius · Post by **ignatius** » Fri May 23, 2003 8:39 am

KC wrote:ATA approves the line to go from City market to 75th street. Construction starts Jan 2005 and they want it up and running by April 2005.

Great news.

Great news indeed. But as a long-time bus rider waiting and waiting for a decent system, I'll believe it when construction starts. I've emailed them asking if the detailed plans are publicly available.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Fri May 23, 2003 9:54 am

response:

Hello -

I am working on developing information for the website. Hopefully it will be available sometime next week.

I will send you an email when the information is posted.

- Bridget M. Moss
Communications Coordinator/Webmaster, Marketing Department
Kansas City Area Transportation Authority
1350 E. 17th Street
Kansas City, MO 64108
bmoss@kcata.org / metro@kcata.org
phone: 816-346-0339
fax: 816-346-0263

carfreekc · Post by **carfreekc** » Sat May 24, 2003 9:39 pm

If any of you are south of the Plaza and were as alarmed as I was at the Star article about BRT the other day, they got it wrong. At the BRT open house, Jim Pritchett of the ATA told me every two out of three BRT buses would go to 75th (since BRT will replace the 56-Country Club). The Star article said: "The rapid buses would run about every 10 minutes during rush hour and every 15 to 20 minutes at other times. However, service would be less frequent south of the Plaza because only about one-third of the buses would will make that run."

I emailed Pritchett, and he said the Star got it wrong. It still is indeed planned for two out of three to go to 75th. Whew.

carfreekc · Post by **carfreekc** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:05 pm

Public hearing for bus rapid transit

In case you're interested....I just now found the published notice of this in the classified section from June 22 (unless there was another notice somewhere I also missed). I'm not going to type it all out (and couldn't find any mention of it online), but here's the basic gist of it:
___________________________________________________________

"...The Kansas City Area Transportation Authority (KCATA) will hold a public hearing on Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 4 p.m. regarding the draft Environmental Assessment and a Department of Transportation Section 5309 grant application for Central Business Corridor Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) project. The hearing is being held for the following.

"1. The [KCATA] is undertaking an Environmental Assessment for the Central Business Corridor Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) project. The BRT project is a bus route connecting from the River Market along Grand Boulevard to the Government Complex along Oak Street, to the Convention Center along 12th and 13th Street [sic], to the yet-to-be constructed Performing Arts Center at 16th and Wyandotte Streets, to Union Station along Main Street, and to 75th and Wornall along Brookside Boulevard and Wornall Road. The BRT service will use existing city streets just as the present bus system does.

"2. A Draft Environmental Assessment for the project is available for viewing and inspection by contacting Cheryl Floyd at the offices of KCATA, 1200 East 18th Street, Kansas City, Missouri 64108 between 8 a.m. and 4:45 p.m., beginning June 23, 2003."

....

"6. At the hearing, the KCATA will afford an opportunity for interested persons or agencies to be heard regarding social, economic and environmental aspects of the project. Interested persons may submit oral or written evidence and recommendations with respect to said projects."

__________________________________________________

I really hope I missed another ad that was more user(public)-friendly.

Interesting that the first public meeting about the proposed service cuts is on this very same afternoon (beginning at 4:30 p.m. at the Gem Theatre).

http://www.kcata.org/2004Meet_701.html

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 3:55 pm

anybody attending that meeting on the 8th that can give us a report?

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 3:59 pm

More info:

http://www.kcata.org/media/BRT_data.html

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:00 am

moving forward...HNTB contracted to design stations and logistics for line....want to have it up running by 4/2005

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:59 pm

US Transit Administration dropping $2.3M for the BRT stop design. Designs should be done by the end of the year.

We might have something that at least RESEMBLES light rail sooner than we think. Thank God this isn't up to the voters:

http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansa ... st=b_ln_hl

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