High Speed Rail

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ComandanteCero
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High Speed Rail

Post by ComandanteCero »

basically another report heating up talk of a high-speed rail network that would go throughout much of the midwest. Imagine being able to hop onto a train at Union Station and being in downtown Chicago within 4 (and some change) hours!!

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Study: High-speed rail could benefit Midwest

By Carol Ann Riha
The Associated Press
Published December 14, 2004, 4:52 PM CST

DES MOINES -- A high-speed rail network radiating from Chicago's Union Station through nine Midwestern states could carry 13.6 million passengers annually by 2025, according to a new report.

The Midwest Regional Rail System report released Tuesday confirms the viability of a 3,000-mile rail network stretching through Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Ohio and Wisconsin, said Mark Wandro, Iowa's transportation director.

Trains would travel at speeds of up to 110 m.p.h., cutting hours off trips between major cities.

The study, led by Transportation Economics & Management Systems Inc., a Frederick, Md.-based consulting firm, said significantly reduced travel times, increased frequency of service, improved reliability and connections to other forms of transportation would be a big draw to passengers.

Wandro said the network would be phased in over a 10-year period at a cost of $7.7 billion for new equipment and track and signal improvements.

"This is an incremental and phased plan for improved passenger rail service. However, it will require significant federal funding for it to be implemented," Wandro said.

John Schwalbach, chief of the bureau of railroads for the Illinois Department of Transportation, said the "hub-and-spoke" system would allow for passenger rail travel from downtown to downtown.

"You can go from downtown Chicago, to downtown St. Louis, to downtown Milwaukee," he said. "You don't have to worry so much about parking issues."

Schwalbach said some track improvements already have been made in Illinois. A stretch from Mazonia to Springfield has been upgraded to carry higher speed trains, and a new signal system is being installed, he said.

A planned route through Iowa would follow the current Iowa Interstate Railroad track through Davenport and Des Moines. Other legs are proposed to connect Chicago with the Twin Cities and Detroit.

Officials said the new report not only increases awareness of the Midwest rail plan, but also shows Congress that there has been in-depth study.

"If and when funding becomes available, the Midwest has developed a plan," Schwalbach said.

"The DOTs in the central part of the country have looked at this and think it's a viable alternative and important part of our transportation system," he said.

Hey said it also is important that the plan is ready to go.

"We have nine states that have cooperated on this and tried to bring it to fruition. Hopefully ... it will be looked at favorably compared to other states just getting started," he said.
Copyright © 2004, The Associated Press
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by phxcat »

That looks cool. If that gets going, however, we need to make KC a reagional hub of the thing with lines going to Omaha, Denver, Wichita, and maybe then on down to Dallas.
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by rxlexi »

heh. that would be incredible. I don't know that the midwest cities have the density or commercial synergy to really make it work though. The Acela high speed train on the east coast links various cities at high speed where traffic has become terrible. In much of the midwest it's still cheao and easy to drive everywhere. Nonetheless, I would love to see this happen, it would really bring together the midwest and create a little added sense of regionalism, what with the ability to hop on a train and not long after be right in the heart of any number of great MW cities.
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by KCN »

The line should go through Columbia, not Jeff city. That would be great for MU students and take those maniacs off I-70. Besides, that I-70 widening study mentioned having an extra wide median for high-speed rail going down the middle.
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by Critical_Mass »

This is excellent. I don't know if the 110 mph speed is as fast as the high speed trains they use in France, but this could allow people to commute in from much greater distances. In the book I'm reading, 'How Cities Work', it briefly discusses this mode of transportation. In the Paris metro area, people use these trains to commute in and out of the city, commuting great distances of like 150 miles or so, which is a 45-60 minute commute. It could add to further sprawl, but it would also allow someone who works in Jeff City or Columbia to actually live in KC if they prefer, and take the train into work. You could live in downtown KCMO and walk to Union Station to take the 45 minute train into Jeff City...
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by KCN »

I am guessing these trains won't be cheap...
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by dangerboy »

This plan uses a lot of existing rail lines, which is why it goes through Jeff City instead of Columbia. They want to upgrade existing lines for higher speeds, and then buy the new trains, build stations, etc. Building a entirely new rail lines would be very expensive, and probably near impossible to aquire the right of way.

However, the long term plan for rebuilding I-70 does include an extra-wide medium, with the idea it could accommodate rail in the future.
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by ComandanteCero »

especially with talks of a toll booth going up on I-70, and rising road maintenance costs in general, we'll see drastic changes in how we approach driving inter-city/state distances ( in other words it will cost much more to just drive, not only because of gas but because of overextended road building and states and the federal government having to allow roads reflect a much truer user cost), so i think if this were to happen a high speed rail would quickly become a very convenient alternative to driving between cities in the next 20 years.

yeah, criticalmass, that's a great point, high speed rail could be the future for how people settle and create greater connectivity in the region. I think as this becomes a more viable option, i wouldn't be surprised if the rich finally decide to break completely free and settle small exclusive satellite towns. If this were planned correctly it could actually be great for fighting sprawl, in that while the population would be decentralizing it wouldn't be with the same kind of overwhelming detrioration of the landscape when people are trying to do it in a car dependent way.
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by KC0KEK »

So rail-facilitated sprawl is okay, but car-facilitated sprawl isn't?
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by ComandanteCero »

no, i didn't explain myself very well. My point is that there is a large movement towards decentralization, but because we are car dependent people can only do it in a car oriented way (which means continuously urbanizing along highways). If there were trains it might be possible to decentralize people in such a way that they were added to existing towns, and if planned well could do so in non-car oriented developments. Because trains would be the primary form of commuting there wouldn't be as big a need for car oriented development. Also, people who move to the sprawl edge usually do so to be close to the country, with high speed rails they could just up and go to a real town in the country and not contribute to an always expanding metropolitan sprawl edge. I'm sure many people would move out to paola or bumblefuck nowhere if they could be guaranteed to live in a country setting but be able to be in a big city within an hour. It's just part of choice, and not compromising those of us who want to have a more compact metro.
KC Region is all part of the same animal regardless of state and county lines.
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by Sonfire »

ohh... we get two lines coming into KC, so it could be anywhere from 5-11 trains daily.
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by KC0KEK »

dangerboy wrote:This plan uses a lot of existing rail lines, which is why it goes through Jeff City instead of Columbia. They want to upgrade existing lines for higher speeds, and then buy the new trains, build stations, etc. Building a entirely new rail lines would be very expensive, and probably near impossible to aquire the right of way.
What about the COLT short line, which is owned by the city of Columbia? What's that connected to? And could it be upgraded?
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by phxcat »

I see what CC is saying- you can preach to people that it is best to live in the city all you want, but that doesn't mean it is going to happen. Some people are going to keep moving out no matter what, but the ability to commute by rail is much more prferable than by SUV.

Over the next couple decades, I hope to see more and more rail transit, not just for passengers but for shipping. We need to do what we can to decrease the amount of oil we use, and increased rail use is an option- not to metion the fact that KC is one of the better positioned cities when it comes to infrastructure and location. If we have regional networks like this all over the country, I could see KC poising itself to be the primary link between the midwest and the northwest, through Denver, and the southwest, through Dallas. Just a dream!
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by trailerkid »

Rail study shows benefits would draw passengers

CAROL ANN RIHA
Associated Press

DES MOINES, Iowa - A high-speed rail network radiating from Chicago's Union Station through nine Midwestern states could carry 13.6 million passengers annually by 2025, according to a new report.

The Midwest Regional Rail System report released Tuesday confirms the viability of a 3,000-mile rail network stretching through Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Ohio and Wisconsin, said Mark Wandro, Iowa's transportation director.

Trains would travel at speeds of up to 110 mph, cutting hours off trips between major cities.

The study, led by Transportation Economics & Management Systems Inc., a Frederick, Md.-based consulting firm, said significantly reduced travel times, increased frequency of service, improved reliability and connections to other forms of transportation would be a big draw to passengers.

Wandro said the network would be phased in over a 10-year period at a cost of $7.7 billion for new equipment and track and signal improvements.

"This is an incremental and phased plan for improved passenger rail service. However, it will require significant federal funding for it to be implemented," Wandro said.

John Schwalbach, chief of the bureau of railroads for the Illinois Department of Transportation, said the "hub-and-spoke" system would allow for passenger rail travel from downtown to downtown.

"You can go from downtown Chicago, to downtown St. Louis, to downtown Milwaukee," he said. "You don't have to worry so much about parking issues."

Schwalbach said some track improvements already have been made in Illinois. A stretch from Mazonia to Springfield has been upgraded to carry higher speed trains, and a new signal system is being installed, he said.

But in Iowa, rail officials would be starting from scratch, said John Hey, an analyst in the modal division of the Iowa Department of Transportation.

"We've not invested any money yet. We're waiting for a federal program," he said. "Some of the other states have because they've been in partnership with Amtrak for a number of years... Illinois, Wisconsin and Michigan."

Officials said the new report not only increases awareness of the Midwest rail plan, but also shows Congress that there has been in-depth study.

"If and when funding becomes available, the Midwest has developed a plan," Schwalbach said.

"The DOTs in the central part of the country have looked at this and think it's a viable alternative and important part of our transportation system," he said.

Hey said it also is important that the plan is ready to go.

"We have nine states that have cooperated on this and tried to bring it to fruition. Hopefully ... it will be looked at favorably compared to other states just getting started," he said.

ON THE NET

Iowa DOT Office of Rail Transportation: http://www.iowarail.com/

Illinois Department of Transportation: http://www.dot.state.il.us/
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by staubio »

I see this as inevitable in the long run, but it would be nice to have it sooner than later. With fuel getting expensive and an over-dependence on air travel that is vulnerable, a comprehensive rail plan is a must.

Imagine moving car-free to the heart of any city in the midwest. Imagine tourists pouring into Union Station without their cars clogging up our urban fabric.

With enough ridership, I'd guess fares could compete with driving. With widespread usership, we could finally connect this country correctly.

How does the cost of rail-mile compare to the cost of a lane-mile?
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by mean »

Trains would travel at speeds of up to 110 mph, cutting hours off trips between major cities.
This is the only thing I don't like about the whole deal. It's a great idea, great routes, something that is very needed, imo. But there are trains all over Europe and Asia capable of 300+ mph, and this is America dangit, richest country in the world; why should our trains be 1/3 as fast when our distances are 3 times as long?
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by phxcat »

300 miles an hour- why would you fly? You are right- when our states are similar in size to European nations- we should be moving faster. This would be awsome none-the-less- and it would go a long way to solve any union station questions.
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by jlbomega »

I'm assuming that trians moving that fast would triple the cost of this project. It sounds like this project entails using existing lines for transportation which I'm sure cannot be upgraded to the magnetic tracks used for the bullet trains in other countries.
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by shinatoo »

YES this is what I've been hoping for for years. Lets take 1/10 of what Bush is asking for in Iraq and invest it in this.

300 mile an hour trains cannot travel on conventional tracks. Have to use a magnetic induction system. http://www.lasvegasnevada.gov/946.htm

There is one proposed between LA and Las Vegas (400miles??) that is estimate at 25 billion.
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Re: High Speed Rail

Post by ignatius »

shinatoo wrote:YES this is what I've been hoping for for years. Lets take 1/10 of what Bush is asking for in Iraq and invest it in this.

300 mile an hour trains cannot travel on conventional tracks. Have to use a magnetic induction system. http://www.lasvegasnevada.gov/946.htm

There is one proposed between LA and Las Vegas (400miles??) that is estimate at 25 billion.
There was a fairly serious KC/STL effort in the latter 90's for a Missouri Olympic bid in 20+ years. It would've had event sites across the state and would involve a 300MPH levitrain between KC/STL for under 1 hour trip. Would cost about $7B to implement based on the costs above, but it's a nice dream.
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