I-35

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Highlander
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Re: I-35

Post by Highlander »

GRID wrote: I get that, but tearing down 35 is not going to fix the problems it created.  It might even create more problems, more blight etc than leaving it there.

Most of 35 from state line to the loop is not elevated.  There are a few bridges.  It would probably cost a few hundred million to completely rebuild it.

To relocate it would cost far more than 1 billion.  It would cost half that just to remove 35 and clean up the corridor.  A new 35 running through rough terrain, heavy industry, rivers, tons of rail yards etc with nearly all of it being elevated?

Come on.  You can't do all that and tear down and doing anything productive with the old 35 for under 1.5-2 billion. No way.

Then you would open a whole can of worms of how to get that traffic through downtown coming from the west.  670 and 70 both narrow down to one freaking lane because the loop can't accommodate them.  When anything at all goes on downtown to generaly even a little traffic on 670 EB, it's backs up across the viaduct.  You try to bring 35 traffic in from the west and you will create mass problems unless you go with a whole new freeway totally bypassing the loop and crossing the MO river on its own bridge etc.  

Then you are adding more freeway to the downtown area and your cost will go even higher.

I'm just being a realist here.

Study stuff that has a chance of happening.  That's all I'm saying.
I have to agree.  The alternative location would have been better if done initially but I think we are stuck with what we have for better or worse and changing things now would open a huge can of worms.  The biggest can of worms once the project was finished is having a huge undeveloped swath running through the city.  While this might entice some to its possibilities, at the rate KC builds in the urban core, it would take probably decades to fill it in.  KC is not like Berlin where the swath of land left by the Berlin Wall was filled in a few years by new developement, it would be an agonizingly slow process.  Rather than spend money on this project, I'd prefer a project to cap the southside of the loop around downtown.  I think that project would benefit downtown more in the long run.   
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Re: I-35

Post by DaveKCMO »

I-35 around downtown will get some much-needed maintenance in 2013.

- SB and NB elevated over westside/crossroads will reduce to 2 lanes for up to 8 months
- west pennway on/off ramps will close for up to 8 months.
- NB on-ramp from penn valley park will close for up to 8 months.
- 12th street bridge and ramps closed for 60 days

around the same time, several other projects will affect access to the loop:

- main street over 670 will be closed and replaced (duration unknown)
- 14th street on-ramp to EB 70 closed for 30-40 days (SE corner of loop)
- NB 70 ramp to WB 70 closed for 20 days (NE corner of loop)
- EB 70 ramp to SB 70 closed for 30-40 days (NE corner of loop)
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Re: I-35

Post by kboish »

DaveKCMO wrote:I-35 around downtown will get some much-needed maintenance in 2013.

- SB and NB elevated over westside/crossroads will reduce to 2 lanes for up to 8 months
- west pennway on/off ramps will close for up to 8 months.
- NB on-ramp from penn valley park will close for up to 8 months.
- 12th street bridge and ramps closed for 60 days

around the same time, several other projects will affect access to the loop:

- main street over 670 will be closed and replaced (duration unknown)
- 14th street on-ramp to EB 70 closed for 30-40 days (SE corner of loop)
- NB 70 ramp to WB 70 closed for 20 days (NE corner of loop)
- EB 70 ramp to SB 70 closed for 30-40 days (NE corner of loop)
Are they going to try to coordinate main street bridge replacement with installation of the streetcar? Seems obvious, but....
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Re: I-35

Post by DaveKCMO »

yes. it will become city property. HDR won the bridge contract.
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Re: I-35

Post by DaveKCMO »

Dear I-35 Stakeholder,

Yesterday the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission awarded the project to make bridge improvements on I-35 from the Downtown Loop to State Line. Work requiring lane closures and ramp closures in the area could start as early as April 15. I wanted to provide you with this notice, and give you an update of our activities.

Here's a list of impacts associated with this project -
I-35 (both directions) will be reduced to 2 lanes from Cambridge Circle to the Downtown Loop from April 15 to Mid-December
The On-Ramp from Broadway (near Penn Valley Park) to NB I-35 will be closed April 15 to Mid-December
The On-Ramp from W. Pennway to SB I-35 will be closed April 15 to Mid-December
The On-Ramp from Broadway (near Bartle Hall) to SB I-35 will be closed April 15 to Mid-December
Parking lots under the bridge will be closed at times during construction

A map, and a timeline of the traffic impacts associated with all projects downtown can be found on our website. These documents will be updated throughout the work.
http://www.modot.org/kansascity/major_p ... es2013.htm

We have coordinated with Garmin and TomTom staff so that real time navigation devices will show ramps as being closed. This will help to route traffic around the closures.

Additionally, we do a great job of updating our Traveler Information map located on our website. This provides information regarding current and up-coming traffic impacts. There's even an app you can install on your smart-phone.
http://www.modot.org/
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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by brewcrew1000 »

I didn't really know where to put this but I noticed that there is a new sign at I-35 and 95th street, the highway sign says Des Moines. Not sure if it ever said that before but it seems odd to put Des Moines on a sign before you even hit Kansas City proper, I totally understand the need for Des Moines near Downtown or after downtown but it makes no sense to put it 10 miles before you even hit Kansas City. Also wouldn't it make sense to say Des Moines at 35/435 East Bound Interchange since there are signs near the triangle that indicate Des Moines. I don't get Kdot's love affair with Des Moines but noticed that it also indicates that you can get to Des Moines by taking 635 south then onto 35 North but it would probably be easier to get to Des Moines by taking 635 North then 29/35 by passing any kind of downtown traffic.
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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by flyingember »

brewcrew1000 wrote:I didn't really know where to put this but I noticed that there is a new sign at I-35 and 95th street, the highway sign says Des Moines. Not sure if it ever said that before but it seems odd to put Des Moines on a sign before you even hit Kansas City proper, I totally understand the need for Des Moines near Downtown or after downtown but it makes no sense to put it 10 miles before you even hit Kansas City. Also wouldn't it make sense to say Des Moines at 35/435 East Bound Interchange since there are signs near the triangle that indicate Des Moines. I don't get Kdot's love affair with Des Moines but noticed that it also indicates that you can get to Des Moines by taking 635 south then onto 35 North but it would probably be easier to get to Des Moines by taking 635 North then 29/35 by passing any kind of downtown traffic.
As a control city sign that tells someone the freeway they're on goes to Des Moines, as someone is already in the Kansas City metro. So they're facing the correct direction.

The idea is that if you go this direction you're facing towards this city.
I-70 towards Denver or St. Louis
I-35 towards Des Moines or OKC
I-29 towards Omaha
I-49 towards Joplin

435 and 635 are bypasses and control city signs should direct people towards the most direct route, not force them to understand our city's bypasses, even if not ideal for traffic. Once they know to follow I-35 they know they can find an alternate of their choice.
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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by swid »

Signing control cities in the metro is hard as "Kansas City" is, to say the least, ambiguous, and explicitly putting "Kansas City, Missouri" or "Kansas City, Kansas" on a sign would just confuse people not familiar with the area.
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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by brewcrew1000 »

At the new interchange at 95th and I-35 there never use to be a control city at this spot and it makes no sense to me to put Des Moines at this spot before you even hit Kansas City . If anything it should say downtown not des moines or nothing at all. In Chicago while on 90/94 East there are signs for Chicago Loop then when you are in the loop you get your control cities/states and will see signs for Memphis, Indiana, Wisconsin, etc, it would seem stupid to put a sign that says Indiana before you hit the downtown chicago loop.
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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by flyingember »

brewcrew1000 wrote:At the new interchange at 95th and I-35 there never use to be a control city at this spot and it makes no sense to me to put Des Moines at this spot before you even hit Kansas City . If anything it should say downtown not des moines or nothing at all. In Chicago while on 90/94 East there are signs for Chicago Loop then when you are in the loop you get your control cities/states and will see signs for Memphis, Indiana, Wisconsin, etc, it would seem stupid to put a sign that says Indiana before you hit the downtown chicago loop.
It's not "Kansas City" the city it's the urban built up area and its suburbs. you hit Kansas City several miles to the southwest of this spot

It would not be stupid to put a sign for Indianapolis on I-90 just north of downtown Chicago. Hopefully someone heading towards downtown Chicago knows that's close and it would be helpful to know which way this road goes when leaving town so they can plan ahead of reaching the I-94 split. Think of the same before reaching 635 in OP or 435 in KC at the stadiums

They're control cities, not parts of town. Years ago signs on 435 near/at the northland exit from 35 had stadiums as the destination and they replaced it with St Louis. Yes, in Clay County heading towards downtown. The idea was to tell through traffic to turn here if St. Louis is the goal.

It's a long distance system, not a local system. Think nationwide on signs and not "we're not to downtown yet" but "so I'm in KC, which road do I want now to keep going past it
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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by mean »

In this age of near-ubiquitous GPS and access to free online maps, anyone on road trip that doesn't know I-35 goes to Des Moines has way bigger problems.
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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by flyingember »

mean wrote:In this age of near-ubiquitous GPS and access to free online maps, anyone on road trip that doesn't know I-35 goes to Des Moines has way bigger problems.
Near doesn't mean universal. The bottom 20% of the population is going to be reliant on signs and paper maps.
Free online maps comes with buying a computer, pulling over and finding free wifi, at best.

it also doesn't mean someone doesn't need to be sure that when they hit the downtown loop which ramp to take. Even with GPS I have seen bad names. We call it the HOA bridge, TomTom calls it the ASB bridge incorrectly.

Remember, not everyone knows downtown is along I-35. And if you get into the outside lane and you wanted the inside lane, there isn't time to find a map before ones exit in 8 blocks or which direction they ended up. It's not hard to get all turned around and end up heading south on 71 from 35 north if traveling at night
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Re: I-35

Post by brewcrew1000 »

I have no problem with it saying des Moines just outside of downtown like at SW Blvd/misson rd, I just have a problem with it when downtown is still 15 min away, u could even get lost because the 35/635 exit has a sign that says use 635 for KCI. Pretty sure westbound 70/435 interchange by stadiums doesn't say Topeka West, I think it's just blank, then u have Wichita 435 Sign and des Moines 435 sign then u have the topeka sign the closer u get to the loop.
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Re: I-35

Post by flyingember »

brewcrew1000 wrote:Pretty sure westbound 70/435 interchange by stadiums doesn't say Topeka West, I think it's just blank, then u have Wichita 435 Sign and des Moines 435 sign then u have the topeka sign the closer u get to the loop.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0541023 ... 312!8i6656

It says Topeka just west of Blue Ridge Cutoff on WB 70. You can go down street view and see for yourself.

It's right next to the 435 sign for Wichita and Des Moines on the same overhead truss.
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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by mean »

flyingember wrote:
mean wrote:In this age of near-ubiquitous GPS and access to free online maps, anyone on road trip that doesn't know I-35 goes to Des Moines has way bigger problems.
Near doesn't mean universal. The bottom 20% of the population is going to be reliant on signs and paper maps.
Free online maps comes with buying a computer, pulling over and finding free wifi, at best.

it also doesn't mean someone doesn't need to be sure that when they hit the downtown loop which ramp to take. Even with GPS I have seen bad names. We call it the HOA bridge, TomTom calls it the ASB bridge incorrectly.

Remember, not everyone knows downtown is along I-35. And if you get into the outside lane and you wanted the inside lane, there isn't time to find a map before ones exit in 8 blocks or which direction they ended up. It's not hard to get all turned around and end up heading south on 71 from 35 north if traveling at night
No, free online (or paper) maps comes with going to the library. And yeah, sometimes the exit-only lanes and stuff can be obnoxious, sure. But hopefully if you are out and about on our highways you can read and comprehend signs without needing to reference a map. I know it's kind of a big ask.
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