KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by KCPowercat » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:26 pm

Thanks. I'll take it!

Does it show time changes? So frequency is the same but now they leave at 4pm instead of 8a....thats the annoyance I'm trying to keep aware of.

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by normalthings » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:36 pm

dev49 wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:15 am
hartliss wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:53 pm
dev49 wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:23 am
Also, noticed Icelandair opened their schedule for part of summer next year. Looks like flights return at basically the same time as this year. 3x a week starting May 25.
Correct, the airline agreed to service the route for two years with the incentive agreement in place. If it extends beyond seasonal or beyond next year that would indicate the demand is there.
I thought they might add frequency (or start earlier) next year. It had sounded like the loads this year were pretty high, but I could be wrong.
Forgetting extended season, the natural progression is roughly 3/week, 5/week, 7/week, then wingtips. That is when two Iceland air planes would depart KC at about the same time. I too had heard that summer load factors were very satisfactory. I know Iceland air and/or KCI would have some sort of event or release before putting up an expanded schedule online. August, September and October ,to some degree, is when TATL carriers usually announce their TATL plans for the upcoming Spring/Summer.

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by beautyfromashes » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:05 pm

Icelandair flights to Europe are already starting to increase in price, so I assume that demand is strong.

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by hartliss » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:50 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:26 pm
Thanks. I'll take it!

Does it show time changes? So frequency is the same but now they leave at 4pm instead of 8a....thats the annoyance I'm trying to keep aware of.
Not on the public airliners.net link. I believe the industry tools show the time slot changes

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by normalthings » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:45 pm

Aer Lingus is planning big US expansions. Have hear Pitt is being considered. The same Pitt that now has BA, WOW, Delta, and Condor TATL Service. And Twice yearly charters to China(a waste of incentive funds imho). Haven’t heard anything about KC :(

STL boards seem to think that they could be in the running as well, especially if they don’t get BA. I guess STL Airport is acting differently than they normally do in response to Pitt’s BA announcement. It is believed that either 1. BA is close to announcing STL or 2. It was a big blow to STL. Everyone has been saying that BA was planning to announce STL this month, so we will see.

KCI’s Iceland service has seen pretty good loads during the summer. As I have said before, August-End of Season loads are what will really determine year round service. My conservative best guess is 5 day service next year. Hopefully we will hear more soon. It’s not too late to book your Late Summer getaway to Iceland!

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by brewcrew1000 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:05 am

Is there anyway to figure out if residents of Iceland or maybe just Europe are using the IcelandAir KC route?

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by normalthings » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:07 am

No. Not really.

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by KCPowercat » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:23 am

I'm sure CBP has the data but I don't think they publish any of it.

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by hartliss » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:33 am

brewcrew1000 wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:05 am
Is there anyway to figure out if residents of Iceland or maybe just Europe are using the IcelandAir KC route?
Your best bet would be to see if Iceland (government) publishes that information. As for the O&D, from an international standpoint, in the US it is highly confidential (foreign vs. domestic carrier competition ). You can see total passengers but not where they are coming from or what their final stop was.

https://www.bts.dot.gov/topics/airlines ... icted-data

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by normalthings » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:59 pm

Delta will be ending its Pittsburgh to Paris summer route. These route hadn't been operated by a 767 and before that a 757. In recent years, fill rates had plummeted to ~50%s. The other new services at Pitt have been named as a reason for this Delta flight being cancelled. Pretty interesting how Pitt has lost a formerly profitable and unsubsidized service to a subsidized one.

Per UrbanSTL
Delta's service was summer only while British Airways is going to be year round?

The figures.

2017(767): 131 pax avg per flight ~58% full
2016(757): 115 pax avg. per flight ~68% full
2015(757): 122.2 pax avg per flight ~ 73% full
2014(757): 132.1 pax avg per flight ~ 78.6% full
2013(757): 131.2 pax avg per flight. ~ 78% full

Top take always for me.

1. Aer Lingus to Pitt isn't going to happen.
2. Pitt can't handle 3 carriers. I can see Condor potentially leaving once BA comes.
3. KC and STL are filling our Iceland flights to roughly the same levels that Pitt was filling its Paris flight(before Condor and WOW came in).

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by brewcrew1000 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:38 pm

I think the thing that hurts Pittsburgh and maybe helps KC is that Pittsburgh is closer to much bigger airports so if a family of 4 sees a non-stop from DC to Paris that is 500 less than the Pitt nonstop they are more likely to make the 4 hour drive to dc.

KC can draw from other metros like Omaha, Wichita, Topeka, Lincoln, Springfield, Des Moines while Pittsburgh doesn't really have that luxury because all the metros in proximity already have huge airports or closer to much bigger airports.

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by normalthings » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:02 pm

brewcrew1000 wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:38 pm
I think the thing that hurts Pittsburgh and maybe helps KC is that Pittsburgh is closer to much bigger airports so if a family of 4 sees a non-stop from DC to Paris that is 500 less than the Pitt nonstop they are more likely to make the 4 hour drive to dc.

KC can draw from other metros like Omaha, Wichita, Topeka, Lincoln, Springfield, Des Moines while Pittsburgh doesn't really have that luxury because all the metros in proximity already have huge airports or closer to much bigger airports.
Yes. Kansas City's catchment area provides a huge boost to our trying to capture domestic and international flights. KC's is much larger than comparable cities like STL.

On another note....
1. Spirit will start flying A321's to KC this fall. IIRC, Frontier and Spirirt's A321 have more seats than BA's 787s.

2. Icelandair loads have been roughly 72% to/from KC so far. Just over a month left in the season but loads have slipped since school started back up.
So thats roughly 800 of the 7-10 thousand weekly KC-Euorpe travelers are picking Icelandair. (Roughly 500-700 daily OD during the summer). Pretty good for the first year, could have been better. Keep in mind KC's service was announced about 6 months later than the industry standard of August. Next year should be quite a bit better.

3. The big rumor for the last year has been that BA would announce service to STL this month. I know that BA's Pittsburgh announcement had been viewed as potentially being a blow to STL. I guess time will tell so stay tuned. (Ive repeated this like 20 times)

4. AerLingus and TAP are trying to become the next Icelandair/WOW. Will be interesting to see how that goes for them. KC/STL to Dublin direct? ;)

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:23 am

A KC to Dublin would print money.

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by swid » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:35 am

normalthings wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:02 pm
2. Icelandair loads have been roughly 72% to/from KC so far. Just over a month left in the season but loads have slipped since school started back up.
So thats roughly 800 of the 7-10 thousand weekly KC-Euorpe travelers are picking Icelandair. (Roughly 500-700 daily OD during the summer). Pretty good for the first year, could have been better. Keep in mind KC's service was announced about 6 months later than the industry standard of August. Next year should be quite a bit better.
I agree that it will be interesting to see how well Icelandair does from KC next summer, as I'd have to imagine that the large majority of summer vacation travel to Europe is booked much further out in advance than February. I'm currently looking at flights for a trip to France next June; at this time, a roundtrip to Paris on Icelandair is just over half of the cost of what it would be on any other airline.

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by brewcrew1000 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:13 am

KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:23 am
A KC to Dublin would print money.
I agree plus Dublin is a big hub for Ryan Air, so you could spend a few days in Ireland then head out on a cheap Ryan Air flight for a couple days to Mainland Europe or the UK

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by dev49 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:37 pm

Not sure which airplane thread to put this is so I thought I would put it here.Talks about Icelandair struggles so I thought it would be interesting to others. At least there is a KC mention though! I will be curious to see the final numbers for the year. Hopefully this doesn't have a negative effect on next summer here.

https://skift.com/2018/08/28/icelandair ... sm-market/

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by normalthings » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:18 am

Takeaways from the article

1. KC has a below average load. However, KC flights started to sell half a year later than typical for the industry
2. It seems to me like flying to hub cities like Dallas and NYC is what's really gone rotten for them. It seems like the focus should really be on nonhub cities with strong tatl demand.
3. On Icelandair expanding to Asia... the cheapest a round trip from KC to Iceland gets it $350. You can book KC to Shangahi for $450 round trip on Air Canada(who has a better ecenonomy product). No way that Icelandair would be able to compete. Maybe they should target North Africa and Middle East instead.



Unrelated note..... Delta is reducing capacity in Latin America and the Pacific and expanding TATL services.

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by beautyfromashes » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:44 am

South America seems to be a forgotten destination for most Americans. I’d love to see a budget airline try to cheapen trips to Rio, Buenos Aires, Ecuador, etc. Obviously won’t be Icelandair, but with trips we’ll over $1k, there should be some profit there. Same time zones, shorter trip than Europe and not massively touristy like Europe in the summer.

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by brewcrew1000 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:39 am

^I agree. I thought JetBlue was going to be the market leader in this but they have not really made a push. Also, i think Americans are generally scared of South America because of Venezula, the past history of Colombia (Even thought its safe now) and general stories about crime in places like Brazil.
Also Americans are somewhat boring when it comes to travel so they would rather just have an all inclusive resort to lay around and South America does not really offer this

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Re: KCI Flight Schedule Adjustments

Post by brewcrew1000 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:10 am

beautyfromashes wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:44 am
South America seems to be a forgotten destination for most Americans. I’d love to see a budget airline try to cheapen trips to Rio, Buenos Aires, Ecuador, etc. Obviously won’t be Icelandair, but with trips we’ll over $1k, there should be some profit there. Same time zones, shorter trip than Europe and not massively touristy like Europe in the summer.
You would think an Airline would try to start some 5th Freedom routes from Europe to US then US to South America. It would seem perfect for TAP to at least try a couple routes in and out of Brazil

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