We need a new airport!!!

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beautyfromashes
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:27 pm

Part of it is that the city isn’t putting any money in. We thought we needed to frame it that way to win the election and get the support of the citizenry, but I think it’s hurting us now. The airlines have latched on to the narrative that they are paying for it all and have the say in what is built. Is there a way to donate something besides tax funds to get the look and upgrades that we want? Can we sell a piece of airport peripheral land to a developer and use those funds? Is there another revenue stream to pull from that is aviation specific? What really needs to happen is a hardnosed negotiation standoff with the airlines but I don’t trust any of the current players to go that direction. Our aviation staff and council people are too nice. Kansas City.
Last edited by beautyfromashes on Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:28 pm

We could never put money into it.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:31 pm

To expand on that the funding is really always the same. Airport revenues and leases pay for airport stuff. That's it. No in or out. The difference here appears to be in other cities the aviation department and government oversight (regional authority many times) set the project scope and are the decision makers on scope items or when to value engineer. They then still have to get airline buy in so they sign leases but it doesn't appear normally that airlines get as big of a seat at the project table during design.

Maybe I'm way off base here but that's my inexperienced observation.

Of course in some cities where there is a hub that airline is taking on a bigger role of design but the other airlines are kind of at their mercy.

I don't know, probably just overthinking it but just caught me off today how great the airlines thought our governance was and how they can design to a number they set....which was less than the AD had been working with.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:02 pm

We're also seeing all the price increases up front and thus all the fights are up front. The cost risk method requires it.

I don't expect to see big issues in two years because it went way over budget.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:07 pm

Oh no.way its over budget. That's what I'm concerned about.

Nobody in the city should be worried about over budget

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:10 pm

Can we increase the term of the bonds to generate more upfront funds to fulfill a better vision for the airport? I have a feeling KCI will be like the streetcar and generate many more funds than anticipated with rapid growth. Even with a longer term, if revenues beat projections, we could pay off early.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:17 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:07 pm
Oh no.way its over budget. That's what I'm concerned about.

Nobody in the city should be worried about over budget
You're probably in the 5% minority.

MOST people are concerned about the cost of flying. They don't really care if the airport is flashy or special, they want to get to the airport, get through line quickly and not pay more for their ticket.

It doesn't take much for people to perceive a new terminal as the cause of all of the ticket price increase.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:20 pm

Be concerned with the cost of flying. Who says I'm not? This airport going over budget isn't going to impact that. It's proven industry wide where other new terminals have been built.

That and the fact the airlines have a lot.of.power on cost here is why I say nobody should be concerned about this going over budget.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:29 pm

They're including the costs of all terminal projects. A single one won't, having every project go way up will.

$100 million across 20 projects is equal to the cost of an entire new terminal.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by WoodDraw » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:31 pm

It's amazing how much dumb shit we're doing with this airport based off what random people apparently perceive.

I can't think of anyone that's impressed me in this process. Even the election, which I'll include in the dumb shit category, passed easily and we're still walking on eggshells.

There's just a compete lack of leadership on this project.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:33 pm

^ I’d agree with this. We are showing weak leadership; from the aviation department to the council. The airlines have taken advantage of that, as would be expected. We’re not even hearing push back in the airlines cutting our budget 10%, even after getting an outside study saying the original quote was reasonable. Someone should be mad about that! But, we’re just so happy that we got a deal, any deal.
Last edited by beautyfromashes on Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:40 pm

At first when I heard it, it made sense. Budget s bit lower then as things get designed we make adjustments up as needed. Makes sense. Then I started thinking more about who is going to be approving change orders. Then I started getting concerned.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:48 pm

I see terms like "weak leadership" but it might not be. It might be a strategic long-term decision. Someone always gets something in the end.

For all we know the airlines want to cut new terminal costs and get more profit. If it's not Chicago,it lets them push back against every midmarket city by showing they play a tough game.

Imagine if Delta came to a meeting with airport staff with a six month plan to add 20% capacity to every flight from KC and more nonstop destinations and this is what it takes to get there.

It's all hypothetical but deals have been made on reasons that the public never saw.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by WoodDraw » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:11 pm

15% design would worry me a bit too. They've already designed cheap and now they have to design towards even cheaper while protecting their profit.

And we're looking at blowing $1 million in short term interest costs just for PR reasons.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:19 pm

I don't have a problem with the short term financing.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by WoodDraw » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:25 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:19 pm
I don't have a problem with the short term financing.
Why would we pay interest when we can just loan to ourselves?

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:26 pm

Optics.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:45 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:26 pm
Optics.
This

"No General fund revenue"

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by WoodDraw » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:56 pm

At a cost of a million dollars? Something that everyone will further about in one months?

You people are crazy.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:05 pm

When I sad I was okay with short term financing I wasn't responding just to outside loans. I've said somewhere before I'd like to see the difference in cost between interfund and outside borrowing to see what that difference is.

Is optics worth a million? Not to me but I'm not the crazy people screaming about no general funds nor do I have to be reelected.

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