We need a new airport!!!

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KCPowercat
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:09 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:00 pm
I think the real question should be, Will the new airport attract enough new air traffic to create competition, driving down prices and offset any additional cost being passed to the ticketed public?
Also with that question is make sure the reality of what that cost increase is...if other terminals in other cities are any indication, it doesn't raise ticket prices any material % over what the market does with ticket prices overall.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:15 pm

Isn't the cost of new terminals spread across all tickets nationwide

There were ~741 million domestic passengers across the US in 2017.
Across 20 years this increase would be something like 25 cents per ticket.

Replacing 20 terminals at 2 billion each, spread over 20 years is about $16 per ticket

It doesn't take much for competition to offset the cost increase at 25 cents.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by kcjak » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:32 pm

Airlines tack on fees and other taxes to the price of a ticket to help pay for airport improvements and pay down debt.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:38 pm

kcjak wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:32 pm
Airlines tack on fees and other taxes to the price of a ticket to help pay for airport improvements and pay down debt.
This is the PFC charge that is estimated to go up less than a buck in KC if I remember right. The detractors of the new airport will say the airlines will raise ticket prices to compensate for their increased landing costs at KCI...but data shows that cost is a small part of their expense structure and ticket prices in other cities with new terminals didn't shoot up after their new terminal...it mirrored ticket price increases/decreases across the nation.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:19 pm

Of course the to $1.9 billion cost increase wasn’t real

The cost went from $1.4 to $1.6 billion

And they added on financing costs of $300 million to bring it to $1.9 billion.

So the project cost went up 15%, much less than the 42% implied.

Basically it was confusing the total cost with the total cost with interest.

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/ed ... w-terminal

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:00 pm

Delayed openin (again),, increased cost (again), rendering of a non iconic building.....get excited KC!

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:10 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:00 pm
Delayed openin (again),, increased cost (again), rendering of a non iconic building.....get excited KC!
We chose...poorly. I have to admit, the decision is affecting my choice for mayor.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by WSPanic » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:20 pm

BUT IS THERE A FOUNTAIN!!!1111!!!??

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:24 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:10 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:00 pm
Delayed openin (again),, increased cost (again), rendering of a non iconic building.....get excited KC!
We chose...poorly. I have to admit, the decision is affecting my choice for mayor.
It was far from jj decision alone.

I still am optimistic but wow they aren't doing themselves any favors

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:31 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:24 pm
beautyfromashes wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:10 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:00 pm
Delayed openin (again),, increased cost (again), rendering of a non iconic building.....get excited KC!
We chose...poorly. I have to admit, the decision is affecting my choice for mayor.
It was far from jj decision alone.

I still am optimistic but wow they aren't doing themselves any favors
Transportation committee chose and most of the other members of the council approved their choice out of deference. JJ definitely a major leader in the decision.

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grovester
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by grovester » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:32 pm

While I think most of these issues would have happened to whoever got the bid, there is something to say for PR and getting in front of stories.

The Star hype was pretty quickly shot down by the internet, to the point that their article seemed to be backtracking on its headline.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:15 pm

grovester wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:32 pm
While I think most of these issues would have happened to whoever got the bid, there is something to say for PR and getting in front of stories.

The Star hype was pretty quickly shot down by the internet, to the point that their article seemed to be backtracking on its headline.
Agreed...I personally think Klein isn't up to the task and is over his head on some of this stuff...mix in the council with their brilliant CBA deals (in their mind).

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by im2kull » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:31 am

WSPanic wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:20 pm
BUT IS THERE A FOUNTAIN!!!1111!!!??
For $1.9B there better be...

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by rxlexi » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:52 am

The most interesting/damning thing to me about this process thus far is the lack of any final (or near final) renderings. Some articles use the older renderings, some the new. Seemingly no one differentiates because nothing has been confirmed.

We still don't have a detailed idea of what we're getting yet, only vague "vision" images. Yet costs are increasing and demo/construction is on a pretty tight timeline.

When do we see (near) final renderings from SOM?

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:54 am

beautyfromashes wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:10 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:00 pm
Delayed openin (again),, increased cost (again), rendering of a non iconic building.....get excited KC!
We chose...poorly. I have to admit, the decision is affecting my choice for mayor.
The delays right now are caused by federal-level delays. You can't look at the city and blame them.

Edgemoor has already selected the demoliton contractor, they're ready to go and said they could start demolition last month with federal approval.

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beautyfromashes
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:08 am

We should wait if the tariffs are dramatically increasing costs for materials. That trade war thing has to be settled at some point either way.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:35 am

flyingember wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:54 am
beautyfromashes wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:10 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:00 pm
Delayed openin (again),, increased cost (again), rendering of a non iconic building.....get excited KC!
We chose...poorly. I have to admit, the decision is affecting my choice for mayor.
The delays right now are caused by federal-level delays. You can't look at the city and blame them.

Edgemoor has already selected the demoliton contractor, they're ready to go and said they could start demolition last month with federal approval.
Hell yes you can blame city staff on this. They are inexperienced in this and it's showing....add in an inexperienced developer in this area and it's a recipe for all kinds of delays. Part of the known risk in picking edgmoor but unknown (to me at least) how unprepared Klein was for this.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:00 pm

You can say what you want about the city and Edgemoor but they're not the only parties involved.

This is a three-party project. The airlines are the end customer of this project and they've all done more terminal projects than any company has.

If the airlines would have sat down with the council and preferred B&M for the project do you think they wouldn't have been picked? If they didn't like the design and cost do you think things wouldn't change? If they thought Edgemoor didn't have the experience to pull it off do you think they wouldn't have said something? There's zero chance that any of this is due to mismanagement because the airlines absolutely will send help to the city so they get a terminal they want.

That things are still moving forward is all the sign you need.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:18 pm

That wasnt a comment saying I wanted b&m. Far from it. Still can't ignore the inexperience on this project. It's not the airlines job to do the airport director or developers job.

It was mentioned over and over about edgmoor inexperience...it was a known risk.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:51 pm

Anyone who has watched any of the new terminal meetings can see that Klein is out of his element. I’m sure he’s great at everyday management of the airport. This is something totally different and the city should hire a qualified manager/city representative for the development work.

B&M messed up bad. To not even have a valid proposal blows my mind. But, I think the city should have rebid. To have a major local player disqualified is a worst case senario. The city wasn’t obliged to have to take one of the offers. If they received just one bid, they would have likely rebid.

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