We need a new airport!!!

Transportation topics in KC
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mykem
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by mykem » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:17 pm

You know its awfully funny that Edgemore knew of the FAAs rejection of half of the city's concessions before this set of renderings came out. The roof, and column free space and indoor fountain may have been scraped due to this. Edgemore knows they are on the hook for these concessions, and they can't very well give up any profit margin to accommodate them.

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normalthings
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:40 pm

^^^^^ that sounds far from the truth. As said in the council meeting, an FAA ruling was not yet known and wouldn’t be released until later. Also, the Community Benefits don’t add up to hundreds of millions or anything large.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:52 pm

If you believe the CBA is going to make for a cheaper airport, only the city council is to blame. While their intentions may have been good, their forcing of the CBA was idiotic when FAA approval was obviously always a question.... And not to mention the delays it caused getting the agreement done.

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mykem
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by mykem » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:22 pm

normalthings wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:40 pm
^^^^^ that sounds far from the truth. As said in the council meeting, an FAA ruling was not yet known and wouldn’t be released until later. Also, the Community Benefits don’t add up to hundreds of millions or anything large.
No, 28 million total .14 million of that the FAA said over a month ago to Edgemoor it was not going to allow. This was even prior to the new renderings being released. Why didn't Edgemoor say anything then? The city got wind of this just last week through the media. I'm not talking hundreds of millions of dollars, but 14 million is a lot of money and where is it going to come from? Maybe it is far from the truth, but to me it looks bad.

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Highlander
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by Highlander » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:18 pm

normalthings wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:40 pm
^^^^^ that sounds far from the truth. As said in the council meeting, an FAA ruling was not yet known and wouldn’t be released until later. Also, the Community Benefits don’t add up to hundreds of millions or anything large.
Probably. But the easiest thing to do is just drop the community benefits aspect of the contract. It never should have been part of the deal.

WoodDraw
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by WoodDraw » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:46 pm

The city found out July 19th that a significant part of the community benefits were rejected. The council was only notified last week.

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mykem
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by mykem » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:48 pm

WoodDraw wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:46 pm
The city found out July 19th that a significant part of the community benefits were rejected. The council was only notified last week.
Thanks for the clarification. :D

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by TrolliKC » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:19 am

On a slightly different topic I was extremely surprised to find a shoe shine man operational by Delta (Concourse B) Monday at 6:30 am. Of course I had to avail my self of his services. He said it has been 17 years since KC has allowed a shoeshine to operate - which would be very strange if true. Regardless I am hoping that the new terminal brings many such basic amenities back. It has been very embarrassing bringing international guests to our meeting here over the last 10 years. They usually love the city but hate the airport.


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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by joshmv » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:34 am

Geoffrey Stricker of @edgemoordevel and @JustinMeyerKC of the #KC Aviation Department are talking with @KCStarOpinion today at 4 p.m. ✈️
Tune in here: https://www.facebook.com/KCStarOpinion/

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by im2kull » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:11 am

flyingember wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:58 am
WoodDraw wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:40 am
Seating, airport gates, and a roof: pick two.
People want wider concourses and more retail
People want more seating with modern amenities like power everywhere and work spaces
People want crazy fancy architecture
People want to spend as little as possible
People want a fancy fountain
People don’t want to walk a lot
People want large restrooms
People want to get in and out easily
People want to be able to drop off at the curb

They all can’t be done. Something has to be dropped and so far it’s the fanciest architecture. More, more, more comes with a cost.

It’s not pick two of three. It’s more like pick 42 of 115 things.

This is a $1.5 Billion dollar development.. just incase our contributors here have forgotten. That's a lot of money to spend. A lot. If you really think that Edgemoor can't afford to run a gluttonous amount of contractor grade, 15 amp outlet with USB charging ports @$2 each, or install many, many large, and luxurious public restrooms for $40k a pop, or even install the most ridiculously ornate indoor fountain this city has ever seen at $1 million dollars.. then you're losing your mind. Speaking of $1.5 billion dollars... that IS how much the tallest building in the world, the Burj Khalifa cost to build. I don't doubt that we'll end up with a Nashville Airport Lookalike, but to think that we're hindered by the budget afforded (Instead of simply understanding the economics of going with a capitalist, lowest bidder from out of town) is asinine.

When was the last time anything else was being built in this town with a $1.5 billion dollar budget? Anyone?

How many people are regretting the big middle finger the council waved at B&M now? Do you think we'd have this same problem? Do you think a local business would be doing the same things with everything they'd have to lose? Motivated contractor. Private financing. Fair terms. Not much more you could ask for...

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normalthings
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:40 am

Burn Khalifa was 1. Build over a decade ago in a region with sketchy labor practices 2. Isn't in America. 3. Isn't an airport. Airports cost a lot more to build per sqft.
The tallest building in America cost $3-4billion to build a couple years ago.

Who said there wouldn't be nice bathrooms, charging stations, and a fountain. Has it not been established that all of these things will be there?

On the topic of BM.... All of the costs are roughly the same as what any other group would experience. It's not like concrete costs a lot more or less for one person than it does for another. And if Edgemoor hadn't won, BM still wouldn't have gotten the project. BM was ranked third out of four proposals. JLLs was so far out of the race they shouldn't be counted. So far all intents and purposes BMs proposals was THE WORST ONE. BM was ranked third out of four teams for a reason.

BM did the previous renovation. How'd that go? Did they make big financial sacrifices like your suggesting? No they didn't.
private financing. Fair terms
something BM could not figure out.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:54 am

im2kull wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:11 am
Speaking of $1.5 billion dollars... that IS how much the tallest building in the world, the Burj Khalifa cost to build.
Remember, that building was put up in a literal kingdom with an absolute monarch. The president is a member of one of the royal families.

The World Cup efforts in Qatar has killed 1200 workers.
https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/deat ... 637fe4d3e7

At all projects in the UAE 2004 there were 880 construction deaths.
https://www.arabianbusiness.com/site-wo ... 11228.html

This is a country where migrant workers are killed off as a matter of course. If you want a better comparison pick a building somewhere in Europe or South America

4% inflation in the US annually makes that $1.5 billion more than $2 billion today (if you figure cost from 2010, if we figure from 2004 it's $2.5) Your 1:1 comparison is based on a faulty premise that a building from the past would cost exactly the same today.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:03 am

normalthings wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:40 am
BM did the previous renovation. How'd that go? Did they make big financial sacrifices like your suggesting? No they didn't.
Adjusted for inflation, the 1999 to 2004 renovations cost about 28% of teardown and building new. There's no way they made sacrifices.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:49 am

Couple design notes

Justin Meyer on coastless kc pod that there would be retail before security.

Justin also said an express kci to downtown bus would be beneficial

Terminal at its narrowest looks to be around 100 feet wide. That comparable to other airports we have generally considered good design (indy 100, pdx 120, aus 84)

cityscape
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by cityscape » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:59 am

Can we change the thread title to "Official: New Airport"?

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:28 am

KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:49 am

Justin also said an express kci to downtown bus would be beneficial
A second express bus to the Mission transit center would encourage JoCo bus usage.

Not everything should terminate downtown.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:07 pm

Lol okay

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normalthings
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:14 am

The 1st open house is tonight from 4:30 to 6 at the Northland Cathedral.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by kcjak » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:31 am

Anyone go to the open house Tuesday? Wondering what kind of feedback was given. Even the local media is low on details.

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