We need a new airport!!!

Transportation topics in KC
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voltopt
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby voltopt » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:09 pm

loftguy wrote:
scooterj wrote:I was impressed that it passed by similar percentages in Clay & Platte, too. Apparently this was one issue that the river doesn't divide us on.

shinatoo wrote:So who are the 500 people that voted yes on 2 and no on 3? And are there just 11,000 that vote no on everything, no matter what?


Had I been able to vote in the KCMO election, that's how I would have voted. 2 was relinquishing responsibility for land that, if I understood the parcel correctly, is essentially an oversized median. But 3 is a big block of developable land and there was no information given as to who would get control of it and what they planned to do with it.


If I understand correctly, Parks and Rec can not negotiate the sale of a property they deem unusable until such time as the public approves the sale of such a property. I looked at the request for a disposition vote as opening the door for Stone Lion to pursue a purchase.


The Freedom, Inc. ballot described Question 3 as 'an opportunity to redevelop Western Bible College' or something along those lines. The rumor I have heard is that this will be a residential project, but that's just a rumor. Stone Lion is actively and urgently looking for new space, according to their Facebook page.

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beautyfromashes
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby beautyfromashes » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:24 pm

So, now we have ‘approval’ for the airport and start negotiating design and cost with Edgemoor. If those negotiations go south, is there a chance to open the development to other parties that would provide a superior product or better price?

chingon
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby chingon » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:25 pm

Polling is dead. Pleasant surprise is alive and well.

Riverite
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby Riverite » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:31 pm

Yes apparently if edgemore fails to deliver it will go to the second choice is what I've heard

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ldai_phs
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby ldai_phs » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:32 pm

Riverite wrote:Yes apparently if edgemore fails to deliver it will go to the second choice is what I've heard

AECOM

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby earthling » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:49 pm

Now that design is the next focus, I am more concerned about allowing for expansion of more gates. Gate management is more efficient in the age of computers but 40-something gates may not be enough long term if KC can build up as a hub. I think the design should allow for up to 60 gate expansion and/or a plan to easily tie tougher another new terminal in future for a 60-90 gate expansion (total) in say 20+ years.

KC needs to think big about becoming a next generation international hub, pitching as International Hub 2.0 or something like that. At least have a 20+ year strategy.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby Riverite » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:52 pm

Agreed! I think making the ballot language intentionally vague, will give Kansas City some cards to play as far as long term plan goes

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby beautyfromashes » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:14 pm

earthling wrote:Now that design is the next focus, I am more concerned about allowing for expansion of more gates.

I think I care more about gate depth than number of gates. You can add gates to the end, but it’s more difficult to deepen gate for more amenities or seating or walkways. It’s similar to Kauffman and Arrowhead. The teams want to add more food options or sales carts or amenities and the concourse becomes very crowded. That’s difficult to update due to infrastructure. Don’t skimp on space, it’s what will make this terminal successful in the long term.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby LCDSI » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:43 pm

fyi; edgemoor is working with som architects and here's a link with a few of their past work at other airports.

http://www.som.com/projects#markets=aviation&

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TheLastGentleman
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby TheLastGentleman » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:55 pm

Design-wise, the appearance needs some work. The renderings were pretty underwhelming outside of the neat fountain gimmick and the roof design.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby brewcrew1000 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:57 pm

I have a hard time believing this airport redesign will cost under 1 billion. If you look at past history of recent airports they are all going way over budget. The redesign in SLC has gone over a billion from its original estimate. The brand new airport in Berlin I believe has gone overbudget by like 4 billion

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby StrangerThings » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:55 pm

brewcrew1000 wrote:I have a hard time believing this airport redesign will cost under 1 billion. If you look at past history of recent airports they are all going way over budget. The redesign in SLC has gone over a billion from its original estimate. The brand new airport in Berlin I believe has gone overbudget by like 4 billion



From the way I understood it, any overages fall onto the shoulders of developer and airlines. So it's in their best interest to stay within budget because they've gotta deal with paying it off.

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ldai_phs
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby ldai_phs » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:05 pm

earthling wrote:Now that design is the next focus, I am more concerned about allowing for expansion of more gates. Gate management is more efficient in the age of computers but 40-something gates may not be enough long term if KC can build up as a hub. I think the design should allow for up to 60 gate expansion and/or a plan to easily tie tougher another new terminal in future for a 60-90 gate expansion (total) in say 20+ years.

KC needs to think big about becoming a next generation international hub, pitching as International Hub 2.0 or something like that. At least have a 20+ year strategy.

We can dream. One step at a time though. Start by stealing flights from other Midwest hubs.

The new terminal will have about double the flight capacity of what we currently
use. The gates can be expanded from 35 to 42 which I believe would allow 60 ish more flights per day on top of that.
Last edited by ldai_phs on Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby ldai_phs » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:07 pm

TheLastGentleman wrote:Design-wise, the appearance needs some work. The renderings were pretty underwhelming outside of the neat fountain gimmick and the roof design.

They are waiting for the community outreach meetings to get the details down. The idea if for the airport to reflect the history and neighborhoods of the city

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ldai_phs
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby ldai_phs » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:13 pm

brewcrew1000 wrote:I have a hard time believing this airport redesign will cost under 1 billion. If you look at past history of recent airports they are all going way over budget. The redesign in SLC has gone over a billion from its original estimate. The brand new airport in Berlin I believe has gone overbudget by like 4 billion

We must also remember those airports are much much larger than KCI

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby cityscape » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:30 pm

My biggest concern with the design is that there isn't enough width in the terminal as compared to some of our counterparts. Looking at the Star's view of Indy, Raleigh-Durham, and Ft. Meyer's airports they all had more square footage than the proposed single terminal. I'm not suggesting we have to have 1 million square feet, but we at least want to be on par or slightly above the average square feet per gate.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby ldai_phs » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:44 pm

cityscape wrote:My biggest concern with the design is that there isn't enough width in the terminal as compared to some of our counterparts. Looking at the Star's view of Indy, Raleigh-Durham, and Ft. Meyer's airports they all had more square footage than the proposed single terminal. I'm not suggesting we have to have 1 million square feet, but we at least want to be on par or slightly above the average square feet per gate.

Mention this at one of the community events.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby im2kull » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:18 pm

earthling wrote:.. if KC can build up as a hub.


I sure hope that every time anyone in this thread mentions "Hub" they're NOT talking about a specific airlines hub, and are actually meaning to say "More flights" in general.


An actual single airline "Hub" would be one of the worst things to ever happen to KC and KCI!

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:37 am

Yeah it was so horrible when Midwest express was here...or vanguard.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby brewcrew1000 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:05 am

im2kull wrote:
earthling wrote:.. if KC can build up as a hub.


I sure hope that every time anyone in this thread mentions "Hub" they're NOT talking about a specific airlines hub, and are actually meaning to say "More flights" in general.


An actual single airline "Hub" would be one of the worst things to ever happen to KC and KCI!


I think he means a Fortress Hub where one single airline is so dominant that other airlines will not expand beyond it biggest hubs thus leads to super high fares like Cincinnati to KC for 400 roundtrip. Some examples of these were Cincinnati/Delta (that has died off though). Memphis and Minneapolis were like this also when Northwest was dominate at these airports. I don't think we will ever see fortress hubs again because of airlines like Spirit and Frontier


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