We need a new airport!!!

[KCPowercat]

That was pretty horrible.

[wahoowa]

any details worth sharing?

[KCPowercat]

No. Lot of back slapping and 30 second speeches about supporting it. Lot of b&m and other construction trades in the audience for the photo op.

[TheLastGentleman]

No renders?

[KCPowercat]

Only a render of #5

[SWFan]

Flew to Albany, NY this week. While not a new airport, I liked the layout and it was easy to get in and out of and didn't feel crowded at all. I'd take that airport over KCI. The only change I'd make to Albany if I were building it new today is to make the security area deeper. Obviously the airport was built well before 2001 when all they needed there were a couple metal detectors. So they have the typical zig-zag area leading to it to cram people together since there isn't enough space for straight lines.

Flying out of KCI I had to deal with a long security line at Delta and once inside it was standing room only and you could barely get to your gate because of all the people standing in the narrow area you have to walk down after getting through security. As with all the security areas at KCI the security equipment basically sits where a gate would be and they section off a narrow walkway so people that come in on one side or the other can get to the other side. When its standing room only there are usually groups of people sitting and standing in this walkway and you have to snake your way through.

Long security lines don't really bother me, I typically run into that at almost every airport I've flown in/out of, but I do hate the smaller, more cramped gate areas.

[flyingember]

We also know line length is irrelevant. It's the total capacity relative to the 80 or 90% busiest time that matters (we'll never get to 100% fast coverage without too much cost)

A bunch of 10 person lines with two lanes and 3 minutes to get through takes 15 minutes
A 45 person line with 15 lanes and 3 minutes to get through takes 15 minutes

[aknowledgeableperson]

You mean travelers. Regardless of spin, if makes no difference: the same people are paying for it either way. But the advocates of the ridiculous "private financing" strategy have done everything they can to make people think that some magnanimous collection of private companies have stepped in, and in a feat of unprecedented corporate generosity, offered to buy the city a new airport.

I mean, I am baffled that anybody could possibly believe that, but a lot of people seem to.

This is an example of the game plan being pushed by the GOP for it's infrastructure package.

[Highlander]

Flying out of KCI I had to deal with a long security line at Delta and once inside it was standing room only and you could barely get to your gate because of all the people standing in the narrow area you have to walk down after getting through security. As with all the security areas at KCI the security equipment basically sits where a gate would be and they section off a narrow walkway so people that come in on one side or the other can get to the other side. When its standing room only there are usually groups of people sitting and standing in this walkway and you have to snake your way through.

Long security lines don't really bother me, I typically run into that at almost every airport I've flown in/out of, but I do hate the smaller, more cramped gate areas.

You have highlighted one of the biggest problems with KCI and why I think a renovation of the existing terminals will never be satisfactory. The narrowness of the terminals is so unforgiving and a huge design flaw. Airports require space to move both inside and outside of security and KCI doesn't have room for both. That's why opening the third terminal back up or another renovation is never going to alleviate the issue. The terminals are just too narrow to move people laterally on both sides of security.

On another note, KCI's security lines seem as long to me as just about every other airport. That said, even with upwards of 700,000 frequent flier miles, I can still count the times I've waited more than 10-15 minutes at a US airport in a security line in the last 10 years on one hand. Vegas and Newark were the culprits there. The overwhelming majority of the time, I am through security in about 5 minutes. While TSA pre-approval helps, those lines are often as long as the regular lines. I guess I don't fly that much at Christmas and never at Thanksgiving but the angst over security lines is lost on me. Internationally, it's a different story. Want some long lines - check out the third world.

[flyingember]

The only renovation I liked was the new security building idea. Anything less didn't make sense.

We flew to Chicago over Memorial Day holiday a few years back. There was a line returning on Monday and we expected that.

[SWFan]

On another note, KCI's security lines seem as long to me as just about every other airport. That said, even with upwards of 700,000 frequent flier miles, I can still count the times I've waited more than 10-15 minutes at a US airport in a security line in the last 10 years on one hand. Vegas and Newark were the culprits there. The overwhelming majority of the time, I am through security in about 5 minutes. While TSA pre-approval helps, those lines are often as long as the regular lines. I guess I don't fly that much at Christmas and never at Thanksgiving but the angst over security lines is lost on me. Internationally, it's a different story. Want some long lines - check out the third world.

You must not fly out of LaGuardia much on a Friday afternoon/evening. Jeezuz, I spent a year working in NYC flying in/out of LaGuardia every Sunday/Friday on Midwest/Frontier which was housed in the original B terminal. Sometimes getting through in 30 minutes was fast. Basically imagine the size of the security line for the five to eight gates we have at KCI for each airline. Now, imagine the exact same TSA/x-ray/metal detectors at LaGuardia for the entire freakin B terminal. There were times the line snaked all the way back to the ticket counters.

[wahoowa]

really looking forward to my first journey thru laguardia in a couple weeks now. at least there's a cent lounge...

[Highlander]

On another note, KCI's security lines seem as long to me as just about every other airport. That said, even with upwards of 700,000 frequent flier miles, I can still count the times I've waited more than 10-15 minutes at a US airport in a security line in the last 10 years on one hand. Vegas and Newark were the culprits there. The overwhelming majority of the time, I am through security in about 5 minutes. While TSA pre-approval helps, those lines are often as long as the regular lines. I guess I don't fly that much at Christmas and never at Thanksgiving but the angst over security lines is lost on me. Internationally, it's a different story. Want some long lines - check out the third world.

You must not fly out of LaGuardia much on a Friday afternoon/evening. Jeezuz, I spent a year working in NYC flying in/out of LaGuardia every Sunday/Friday on Midwest/Frontier which was housed in the original B terminal. Sometimes getting through in 30 minutes was fast. Basically imagine the size of the security line for the five to eight gates we have at KCI for each airline. Now, imagine the exact same TSA/x-ray/metal detectors at LaGuardia for the entire freakin B terminal. There were times the line snaked all the way back to the ticket counters.

I've made two trips through LaGuardia in the last few years - many more through Newark though. The LaGuardia trips (albeit not Friday evenings) were easy, though security in 5 minutes. Newark was always the bigger issue for me because I was coming back from meeting our partners in Europe and having to go through to security to catch a flight to Houston. Only once did I experience what I would call a long security line but still made the connection. That said, LaGuardia is one old airport and is about as or even more obsolete than KCI and probably should be replaced. Locations wise - very convenient.

Security lines in the US generally are not as long as people like to complain about. I've fly a lot, way more than most people, and I wonder why I rarely have bad experience and I know it cannot be that I'm just lucky. Most of my bad experiences are airline related - flights being cancelled, overbooked, excessively late etc..

[kcjak]

Flew to San Antonio Friday and back yesterday on Southwest. The SW gates in both SA and Dallas Love Field had seats with power outlets for every two seats versus KCI, which had about a dozen seats total for each gate...and half of those were taken by people who weren't using the outlets. I remember reading quite a while ago that they would be putting in more seats with power outlets - any chance they're waiting until after the single terminal vote in order to build on the inconvenience issue?

[flyingember]

It's a baggage line that is expected to be long, thus why a carry on business traveler sees a greater convenience factor. One should not be worried about hitting a bad security line that makes one miss a flight except at the biggest travel days around major holidays and I would say the general experiences explained match this idea.

Security lines should cause problems something like 1-2% of the time at their very worst.

I bet KC is closer to 5% of travelers seeing a long line. We shouldn't be seeing crazy long lines on a normal weekday morning in an airport our size.

[bobbyhawks]

We shouldn't be seeing crazy long lines on a normal weekday morning in an airport our size.

All it takes is like 3 flights leaving around the same time, and you get multiple hundreds of people arriving at the same Southwest gate in a one hour span.

[KCPowercat]

And that shouldn't happen at an airport supporting a city the size of KC.

Every poor experience boils down to one thing. KCI can't handle any demand.

[flyingember]

The current 5.5% growth is today's 129 people per flight goes up to 136 people in just one year.
Today's 129 people goes up to 151 per flight on average in just two years at 5%.
It's a doubling of numbers in 13 years.

Now, it's unlikely to remain that high of a rate for much longer but it shows how big a deal 5% growth Is on stress at the airport.

The current growth rate is the kind of thing that can make a lot of people very unhappy with the current design very quickly

[phuqueue]

That said, LaGuardia is one old airport and is about as or even more obsolete than KCI and probably should be replaced.

Construction is already underway (which, incidentally, is leading to the real problems with getting in and out of LaGuardia -- not the security lines, which I always find pretty manageable on any airline, in any terminal, but the nightmarish traffic around the airport itself, which of course is only accessible by car or bus).

[pash]

.