We need a new airport!!!

Transportation topics in KC
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rxlexi
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by rxlexi »

They like KC as it is for the most part and want to keep it a secret. KC will be passed up by Oklahoma City if it thinks that way.
Yep. Other cities aren't standing still. Look at growth rates (economic and population) in southern and western metros (Denver, TX, etc). Look at the great strides being made by other midwestern cities despite their slow-growth demos (Cleveland, Cincy, STL, Detroit).

I understand and sympathize with the idea that we want to keep the low cost, easy access (physically and culturally) nature of KC but there is so much room to grow while keeping all of that.

I honestly can't believe the controversy surrounding the new terminal. MCI is a dump. Who wouldn't want a beautiful new terminal to take advantage of the surrounding infrastructure and bring KC into the 21st century. The convenience isn't going anywhere. Look at the incredible transformation of Love Field in Dallas as an example.

I will miss the Terrazzo, however :)
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCFan »

You're exactly right. The biggest problem with some of the KC residents I talk to is they literally don't care about KC growing or moving forward. That's a big part of the problem when you have a huge chunk of people that just refuse to move forward. The business community is big time in favor of a new airport and know how critical it is for our metro - it's not even a question. I've been to business luncheons where talk of a new airport has literally garnered standing ovations. I'll be really interested to see how the city moves the airport forward. Last I heard it sounded like the business community and civic council would be leading the charge for the new terminal, which is probably a good thing because the City failed miserably when they were in charge of marketing it and you still have some on the city council that aren't on the same page.
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LCDSI
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by LCDSI »

fyi; another new flight route for mci.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics ... 99833.html
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by Highlander »

Another airport anecdote. Just flew in and out of Seattle. It's a big airport but it took me about 5 minutes to get off the plane and get to the baggage claim. After collecting luggage, I was out of the airport in a few seconds. Albeit, as I was taking light rail, the walk to the light rail terminal was a good 10 minutes, but hey, they actually HAVE light rail from the airport to the city.

On the way back, I was checked in and through security in about 10 minutes. It was another 5 minute walk from security to the intra-airport shuttle but once off the shuttle, only a walk of a few feet to the gate. My fitbit didn't get near the workout I was hoping for.

Big airport, extremely easy to use. I walked about twice as far as I would have walked in KCI but it was absolutely immaterial.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by TheSmokinPun »

I talked with one of the many Northland seniors that populate my pharmacy this week that said he loves the current airport because he can literally "park my car right on the curb for my flight & it'll be there when I get back." I was amazed, I asked him what his most recent flight was. It was 1994.

There needs to be BBQ sauce sold behind security too. There is so much lost revenue there, see so much confiscated. Just put it in one of those vending machines they sell shirts and stuff no one buys.
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GRID
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by GRID »

Great article in the KC Business Journal about KCI. The nearly 30 minute average wait time if or KCI is actually accurate.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... ci-in.html

KCI is a serious mess and it's doing tremendous economic harm to metro KC.

A few key items:
Airport is held hostage by frequent voters, not frequent flyers. Only 18% of frequent kcmo voters even use KCI.
A supporter of the single-terminal KCI plan, Klika said he thinks Kansas City leaders will ask voters to weigh in on it in the fall. But if the ballot-box approach fails, he said, the transportation authority board he chairs could take over the operation of KCI, allowing bonds for its modernization to be issued without a public vote.

“The ATA was created as a bistate authority for the purpose of regional transportation, and we have the ability to issue revenue bonds,” Klika said. “Under one scenario, the assets of the airport could potentially be transferred over to the authority, which would utilize the revenue generated by the airport to secure those bonds.”

It’s a radical approach and hasn’t been fully vetted from a legal standpoint, Klika said.
“Yes, you have a shorter distance to walk to baggage claim,” Klika said, “but actually getting your bags takes forever. And if your flight gets delayed, you have to sit around in a crowded boarding area with sloppy bathrooms and access to very few amenities, unless you want to go back outside the gate” — which you probably won’t given KCI’s average 28.8-minute TSA wait time.

The single-terminal plan would address those shortcomings while maintaining current conveniences, Justus said.
“I’ve also heard about companies we were courting as a region who said, ‘You just flat out don’t meet our needs as far as air transport is concerned, so we can’t consider you,’” she said. “Those things are frustrating when you have a community that’s growing as quickly and dynamically as we are right now.”
There is demand for more flights, and more direct flights, in Kansas City, the Aviation Department’s Justin Meyer recently explained. But airlines will locate new direct flights at other airports with less demand, he said, because KCI isn’t as pleasant an environment for business fliers, especially those getting on connecting flights.

Think about how you would occupy your time during a 40-minute layover at KCI. Inside the security area and outside, there is limited seating, limited restrooms, extremely limited options for eating or shopping and only superficial local flavor.

If you’re connecting to a flight on another airline — you just better pray that it’s not in the other terminal.
A separate survey gives our airport a D+ grade when it comes to passenger-centric measures. Measures of parking costs and public transit options aren’t far from the norm. The number of carriers operating out of KCI (10) and the number of retailers and restaurants (33) are nothing to brag about, but they aren’t horrible.

Where KCI takes a dive is the average time it takes to get through security — 28.8 minutes. That’s worse than all but two of the 46 airports on the grade card, behind Washington Dulles International and Greater Buffalo International.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCFan »

Good stuff - thanks for sharing. My wife flew out on Frontier yesterday afternoon and said the airport was the worst she's ever seen it. She felt like she was in a cattle pen - no where to sit, couldn't walk without bumping into people, and it took her a great deal of time to find her friend that had already checked in that she was actively looking for. She didn't think they could hardly get another person into the waiting area it was so packed.
Last edited by KCFan on Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by kcjak »

Has there been any reporting on the estimated increase in food and retail from a new airport, including sales tax estimates?
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember »

I'm not finding any good numbers.

This one says it was 4 million in concession income for the airport for the 2015 fiscal year.
http://www.flykci.com/media/1519/aviati ... l-file.pdf

The airport wants to increase concession area from 60k sq ft to 70k sq ft. Obviously better access would be more of any expected increase.
http://www.flykci.com/media/1439/cityco ... -final.pdf
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat »

There is one presentation that has expected concession increase... Maybe financial analysis one
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by GRID »

kcjak wrote:Has there been any reporting on the estimated increase in food and retail from a new airport, including sales tax estimates?
I don't have it in front of me, but I recall the increase in revenue from all economic activity from more retail and restaurants to be something like 60-80%. KCI is probably the worst airport in the country (outside small town airports) when it comes to money generated from such activity. It's probably a big reason it's expensive to park at KCI because they depend on parking revenue too much.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember »

It was given in a city committee meeting from a year ago, 3/15/2016

They looked at 2015 vs 2022 numbers.
$4 million then vs $8.4 million in the future from that point.

They were seeing a 3% increase annually a year ago.
So without a terminal their income would go up to nearly $5 million.

So there's a 60% bump in concession income expected from the new building on top of inflation.

It's worth pointing out this isn't sales taxes, this is the airport's revenue.

Parking revenue is their big use fee generator. They get 3.3x as much from parking as concessions, and that wasn't expected to change, actually to increase to 4x concessions.

So the big ticket new terminal item would be expanded parking garage use. Greater convenience for more people comes with a cost and this would be it.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by warwickland »

Highlander wrote:Another airport anecdote. Just flew in and out of Seattle. It's a big airport but it took me about 5 minutes to get off the plane and get to the baggage claim. After collecting luggage, I was out of the airport in a few seconds. Albeit, as I was taking light rail, the walk to the light rail terminal was a good 10 minutes, but hey, they actually HAVE light rail from the airport to the city.

On the way back, I was checked in and through security in about 10 minutes. It was another 5 minute walk from security to the intra-airport shuttle but once off the shuttle, only a walk of a few feet to the gate. My fitbit didn't get near the workout I was hoping for.

Big airport, extremely easy to use. I walked about twice as far as I would have walked in KCI but it was absolutely immaterial.

both of the big (american) pac nw airports are fantastic from my experience, especially as someone who is usually lugging along camping gear.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by MidtownCat »

KCFan wrote:You're exactly right. The biggest problem with some of the KC residents I talk to is they literally don't care about KC growing or moving forward. That's a big part of the problem when you have a huge chunk of people that just refuse to move forward. The business community is big time in favor of a new airport and know how critical it is for our metro - it's not even a question. I've been to business luncheons where talk of a new airport has literally garnered standing ovations. I'll be really interested to see how the city moves the airport forward. Last I heard it sounded like the business community and civic council would be leading the charge for the new terminal, which is probably a good thing because the City failed miserably when they were in charge of marketing it and you still have some on the city council that aren't on the same page.
"Some". Try the majority.

The majority of Kansas Citians couldn't care less about MCI, because they don't use it frequently and are completely naive and uneducated about how it compares to the rest of the landscape of modern airports in America today.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember »

There is a question on why someone who is (reasonably) poor would have an expensive cable package.

It's because a $200 monthly tv package is cheaper than traveling.

Never estimate how many people don't go to the airport because they never will be able to take a flight. It's not about education, simple economics explains a lot more people.

We keep talking about ease of access and concessions. Maybe we should be talking about jobs. Find some interested local workers and feature them telling about how the airport helps them provide for their families.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by WoodDraw »

This really should not be something to be voted on. Don't we elect people to handle this?

KCI is a horrible airport. It can easily be replaced for a responsible amount of money that will make it a better experience for all. Just do it. Why are we even talking about this still? The people against it are just wrong.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat »

It basically has to be voted on now because the council "promised" they would put it up for a vote to avoid legal messes....bad decision IMO.
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by im2kull »

KCFan wrote:Good stuff - thanks for sharing. My wife flew out on Frontier yesterday afternoon and said the airport was the worst she's ever seen it. She felt like she was in a cattle pen - no where to sit, couldn't walk without bumping into people, and it took her a great deal of time to find her friend that had already checked in that she was actively looking for. She didn't think they could hardly get another person into the waiting area it was so packed.
Is this a result of the airport design, or mismanagement?

Ask yourself that, and be honest with the answer. Don't forget all the trouble that has been caused by the Kansas City Aviation Department and their antics over the years with regards to trying to forcefully create a mess at KCI (In hopes of persuading voters and outsiders that the city NEEDS a full scale freshly built airport)...
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat »

The honest answer is airline mergers, more security, and increased traffic have exacerbated the fundamental flaws in kci design trying to support modern day air travel.

Case in point
Image
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCFan »

Airport design - it was inside the gate. Where do you propose they put people that they're not? Is there some space they're not making available to the public just to make everyone uncomfortable? That's what you're insinuating. After 9/11, security increased which limited space inside the gate compared to the original KCI design. And before you make the argument that terminal A is sitting empty, there's been a lot of airline consolidation over the years and all the airlines and gates they need fit in terminals B & C, which is a much more efficient way of operating.
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