We need a new airport!!!

Transportation topics in KC
flyingember
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:14 am

It's laughable that B&M could come in at 70% the total cost. It would require them to be trying to mess with the project (making everyone bidding offer bad deals) so prices are higher than they should be with Edgemoor, haven't done any leg work on what people are bidding a0t, or to be removing all profit from their numbers all of a sudden. If they were willing to offer this kind of deal to begin with why did they come in so high with their initial bid?

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by WoodDraw » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:53 am

Because it's bs

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by kboish » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:01 pm

I'm watching the airport committee currently (still ongoing) and this most recent issue doesn't sound like it has anything to do with Edgemoor or the city and is totally an internal dispute among the airlines. It sounds like two budget airlines (Spirit & Allegiant) are trying to get themselves a better deal by causing turmoil/threatening to undermine the current developer. The committee members made a masterful move (intentional or not) by all praising Edgemoor at the opening and saying- hey, you airlines asked for this price tag. You figure out how to divvy up the cost. Showing unity will squash the position of Spirit & Allegiant.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by alejandro46 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:24 pm

Thanks kboish for the update.

I hate the KC Star and Business Journal's worthless inflammatory headlines about ballooning costs.

I'm all for transparency, but I mean the costs are going up because of the metrics required to apply for federal funding; they have to include substantially more contingency funds than previously.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:28 pm

In the end, SW will make the decision on whether to keep Edgemoor or switch. If they think they can get a better product or cost, they will do it. I would guess their input is the reason we got Edgemoor in the first place, and why we’ll end up with a fairly bland (but fictional) terminal.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by dev49 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:43 pm

kboish wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:01 pm
I'm watching the airport committee currently (still ongoing) and this most recent issue doesn't sound like it has anything to do with Edgemoor or the city and is totally an internal dispute among the airlines. It sounds like two budget airlines (Spirit & Allegiant) are trying to get themselves a better deal by causing turmoil/threatening to undermine the current developer. The committee members made a masterful move (intentional or not) by all praising Edgemoor at the opening and saying- hey, you airlines asked for this price tag. You figure out how to divvy up the cost. Showing unity will squash the position of Spirit & Allegiant.
Any chance you think either of those airlines would just pull out service if they aren't happy? It isn't like that offer all that much in the first place (especially Allegiant, who operates from a number of secondary airports anyway). Not that it would be ideal but it would fix an issue.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by kboish » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:54 pm

Its possible some of those airline could pull out, I guess. All other airlines, except those two, submitted letters today in support of the airport's current cost and design estimates. (EDIT: which is why it seems like the smaller two airlines are using the larger airport project costs as a red herring/opportunity to negotiate something that affects there ongoing operational costs)

So, you've got to think whether or not the city really cares if those two airlines are on board or not. The city only needs the airlines that represent 2/3 of total airport traffic to seal the deal. Essentially, the city already has that met and could move forward without those two airlines, but is trying to work out a deal everyone agrees with. In business session, Klein stated the reason they are trying to get all the airlines to sign is because that improves the airport's rating when borrowing for construction.
Last edited by kboish on Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by kboish » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:00 pm

Also, to clarify, the airlines are fine with the airport design and cost. They are discussing how the costs for baggage handling fees will be allocated among themselves. It is a tiny, tiny portion of the project costs for the airport, but a significant amount for the two airlines. The two airlines have a good negotiating position because they know the city and developer want this project to move forward and can put pressure on the other, larger airlines to cave. Thats why earlier I said it was good the council appeared to be united behind the developer and stated they (the council) were going to stay out of it...thus deflating the smaller two's position.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:23 pm

Man I hope we don't lose quality airlines like spirit and alligent.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by WoodDraw » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:27 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:23 pm
Man I hope we don't lose quality airlines like spirit and alligent.
I personally think we should bill them for every second of our time they waste, but I guess that's why I don't get to run important things.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by alejandro46 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:37 pm

Looks like Alligent and Spirit are held up over the baggage system costs, per the Star.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/politic ... 04615.html

I'll just be over enjoying my free-flying bags on SWA. . . .

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:58 pm

Southwest and Delta and American just need to step up and be the big dogs and tell these dorks to get in line.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by kboish » Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:09 pm

They only technically need the largest 3 airlines in order to move forward with the operating agreement because those three airlines have over 66% of the passenger traffic at KCI. In business session today, Klein stated they want to get 5 airlines to sign the operating agreement before they move forward. It sounds like they have at least four on board (SW, American, United, and Delta). Airlines that don't sign the operating agreement can still fly in/out of KCI, but it just costs those airlines more.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Then let's effing go.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCTOGA » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:53 am

KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:52 pm
Then let's effing go.
AGREED, $hi&.............., or get off the pot!!!!!! :evil: :roll: :shock: No more in-fighting, let's give the people a quality airport, on budget, on time.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:29 am

Southwest plans to make Kansas City into more of a midcontinent connecting hub. “It’s time to find something that’s cost effective and meets the operational and customer experience needs at an airport,” Mr. Sisneros says(Southwest Airlines).
From the Wall Street Journal

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by dev49 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:47 am

normalthings wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:29 am
Southwest plans to make Kansas City into more of a midcontinent connecting hub. “It’s time to find something that’s cost effective and meets the operational and customer experience needs at an airport,” Mr. Sisneros says(Southwest Airlines).
From the Wall Street Journal
I sure would hope so, that is half the reason this airport is getting built, so Southwest can add more connections.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by cityscape » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:40 am

I'm hoping we get some more international destinations via Southwest. We just flew from Houston Hobby to Belize and there were a lot of KC folks on the Southwest flight.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by GRID » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:09 pm

It may turn out fine and do its job and no matter what it will be 100 times better than the current terminals. But so far, I'm so disappointed in the renderings and basic design. It looks like they re purposed a vacant walmart for the new main terminal. This thing looks like it will be the most basic airport terminal in the history of airport terminals. You don't have to overspend to make it architecturally interesting. It also still seems really small for a modern airport that will open up serving 11 million passengers a year. Seems like it should be closer to 1.5 million sq ft when you compare it to similar terminals and the ceiling height of the departures level seems really low for a major airport terminal. Again it looks like a big former retail box with a road out front.

I still look forward to it opening. But this thing will have zero wow factor and it might not even have a lot of the basic amenities that should come with a modern terminal (like covered skywalks to the garage, moving sidewalks, escalators etc).

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by Sani » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:50 am

How long until we get something like this, the Program Definition Manual for the new terminal in Des Moines?

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