We need a new airport!!!

[KCPowercat]

You can't be serious.

[GRID]

If KCI doesn't have a desired design, why are there several copy cats around the world? Most notably DFW (Dallas/Fort Worth Intl)? If this design is so useless, as some would want us to believe, then why is DFW the hub for American Airlines? Why do they routinely receive 747's and 777's loaded full of pax with no complaints? Why are they expanding and adding more semi-circular terminals? Haven't they gotten the memo that the semi-circle is outdate and drives away business?

What's that you say? Third busiest airport in the WORLD, 200+ Destinations, 29+ Million passengers.

Other than the curved design, there is very little in common between MCI and DFW. Their terminals are so much larger that they basically can function as full blown terminals. MCI’s terminals are not terminals, they are just a bunch of gates behind a glass partition and there is no way to make MCI function like DFW or even give MCI similar amenities without tearing down MCI’s terminals and making one large C shaped terminal more in line with what DFW has, which makes little sense. One of DFW's terminals is much busier than all of MCI.

I can’t imagine why anybody would want to sink another half billion dollars into MCI. A new airport terminal serving 10 million passengers a year would be just as easy to use as MCI is today, only it would be a much better experience.

I just booked a flight to DFW from BWI and southwest doesn’t have nonstop service from BWI to Dallas (yet) so I’m forced to do a connection. MCI was one of the options and there is no way I would ever connect at MCI unless I had a six hour layover and could leave the airport.

It’s time to bring KCI out of the 1960’s. The airport was out of date the day it opened and it has only gotten worse. The “convenience” of MCI is incredibly overblown. KC will never have a super busy and annoying world airport like Denver or Atlanta and if it did, it would be pretty sweet for KC to have such an airport even if it did take an extra hour to fly out of it.

[SWFan]

I agree on DFW, not a good comparison. The half circles at DFW are 100% behind security checkpoints which occur before you get into those half circles. The only way KCI would be comparable is if you built a new building in place of one of the circle parking garages, then built a tram and connectors between the circles to ferry people from each of the three circles from there and put each circle 100% behind security. And I'd say the cost of doing that would probably be about as expensive as all the other plans on the table right now.

And I would also add, that the section of DFW with the Grand Hyatt in it (Terminal D), isn't even a circle it's a square and if I'm not mistaken it is the newest addition to the airport. So someone in Dallas felt like that terminal design was preferably to building yet another circle. Just something to think about.

[voltopt]

To be fair, DFW ORIGINALLY had separate security areas at each gate, and was later renovated/remodeled to place security checkpoints at the ends of the semi-circle shaped terminals. In other words, KCI could be renovated/remodeled to operate as DFW does, with security checkpoints / baggage claim / ticketing placed in the areas at the end of each terminal, closing off the access to the former semi-circle drive.

[flyingember]

To be fair, DFW ORIGINALLY had separate security areas at each gate, and was later renovated/remodeled to place security checkpoints at the ends of the semi-circle shaped terminals. In other words, KCI could be renovated/remodeled to operate as DFW does, with security checkpoints / baggage claim / ticketing placed in the areas at the end of each terminal, closing off the access to the former semi-circle drive.

this absolutely is doable. I certainly can imagine how just building a new security area can be cheaper than any other plan involved in theory

it also would make no one happy. and what's the point of that?

[KCPowercat]

To be fair, DFW ORIGINALLY had separate security areas at each gate, and was later renovated/remodeled to place security checkpoints at the ends of the semi-circle shaped terminals. In other words, KCI could be renovated/remodeled to operate as DFW does, with security checkpoints / baggage claim / ticketing placed in the areas at the end of each terminal, closing off the access to the former semi-circle drive.

this absolutely is doable.

They are the same in overall shape only...hardly makes KCI doable just because DFW was. The depth of the terminal building is much deeper at DFW and the circle of KCI is a much tighter angle (whatever that's caled, I suck at geometry) than at DFW, which always the DFW terminals to handle larger planes.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Dalla ... 5e067d201c

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kansa ... 195d2edaa0

Links should be same scale.

[Pork Chop]

Seems reasonable:

Southwest Airlines Co. is keeping its mind open as plans move forward on Kansas City International Airport's future....the planning will move ahead in the way that airlines and airports usually handle big capital developments.

That calls for doing two things before moving ahead...determining how many people are expected to use KCI in the future and determining the parameters for how much can be spent on improvements or a new passenger terminal.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... erway.html

[KCPowercat]

I like where this is heading....although just relying on current airlines # to forecast 20 year usage for the entire airport shouldn't be the end all when it comes to the city forecasting usage....new airlines could decide to serve KCI (JetBlue, etc) or appear all together.

[kboish]

Seems reasonable:

Southwest Airlines Co. is keeping its mind open as plans move forward on Kansas City International Airport's future....the planning will move ahead in the way that airlines and airports usually handle big capital developments.

That calls for doing two things before moving ahead...determining how many people are expected to use KCI in the future and determining the parameters for how much can be spent on improvements or a new passenger terminal.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... erway.html

So what was the plan before this?

[KCPowercat]

Seems reasonable:

Southwest Airlines Co. is keeping its mind open as plans move forward on Kansas City International Airport's future....the planning will move ahead in the way that airlines and airports usually handle big capital developments.

That calls for doing two things before moving ahead...determining how many people are expected to use KCI in the future and determining the parameters for how much can be spent on improvements or a new passenger terminal.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... erway.html

So what was the plan before this?

I have no idea how it typically works but it's sounding like this whole thing is just part of the process....and I think the lease agreements have changed the airlines tune a bit.

[Pork Chop]

Seems reasonable:

Southwest Airlines Co. is keeping its mind open as plans move forward on Kansas City International Airport's future....the planning will move ahead in the way that airlines and airports usually handle big capital developments.

That calls for doing two things before moving ahead...determining how many people are expected to use KCI in the future and determining the parameters for how much can be spent on improvements or a new passenger terminal.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... erway.html

So what was the plan before this?

Without knowing the details of what occurred previously, I wouldn't be surprised that the aviation department jumped the gun with pushing the single terminal before negotiating with the airlines. Then again there is a bit of finger pointing between the two where the department is stating that they did involve them, but the airlines are stating that they did not until now.

In other words, I have no idea.

[Pork Chop]

I like where this is heading....although just relying on current airlines # to forecast 20 year usage for the entire airport shouldn't be the end all when it comes to the city forecasting usage....new airlines could decide to serve KCI (JetBlue, etc) or appear all together.

Good point.

[im2kull]

The “convenience” of MCI is incredibly overblown. KC will never have a super busy and annoying world airport like Denver or Atlanta..

Convenience for who? Connecting flights average less than 10% of all passengers (Closer to 5% most years). I'd take inconveient for that 5-10% and super convenient for the other 95% any day! Building for the minority is beyond pointless. It is called the minority for a reason, and you can't always cater to a minority. Not without ruining it for the majority.

[im2kull]

And I would also add, that the section of DFW with the Grand Hyatt in it (Terminal D), isn't even a circle it's a square and if I'm not mistaken it is the newest addition to the airport. So someone in Dallas felt like that terminal design was preferably to building yet another circle. Just something to think about.

DFW is building another semi-circle right now, and they have continued to build matching semi-circles throughout their history. They aren't moving away from it at all. I believe the square one is their international terminal, which is completely seperate..Functionally and design wise from the other terminals as is the norm at most other international terminals in most airports.

[beautyfromashes]

Why not just connect the terminals with light rail getting airport and federal money to pay for the trains, stops and track between stations. Then, extend the line with city/state funds to downtown?

[flyingember]

Why not just connect the terminals with light rail getting airport and federal money to pay for the trains, stops and track between stations. Then, extend the line with city/state funds to downtown?

Federal money requires a 50% match, best case. Aviation money is for aviation purposes.

there's not enough city funds for this, we would need a 1 citywide cent tax just for this line and the state has so little money for transit it's a joke.

Simple design math for the rest. Where exactly do you put these trains? Replace the roads? Spend hundreds of millions more and elevate the tracks? My guess is the best train terminal with the current design would be at international circle looping around it, with people walking down the sidewalk to the terminal. Which doesn't really connect them

[mykem]

So, I guess the $4 million spent on Landrum and Brown's work was just so the task force could make an educated recommendation to the city. Two years, and $4 million dollars later and nothing has changed. Now the city has to wait two more years so Southwest Airlines can do their own studies to justify how much money should be spent at the airport.
Instead of continuing to chase their tails, why don't they use the numbers that Landrum and Brown have already projected and translate that into dollars and cents and give an answer in 6 months?

[mykem]

And I would also add, that the section of DFW with the Grand Hyatt in it (Terminal D), isn't even a circle it's a square and if I'm not mistaken it is the newest addition to the airport. So someone in Dallas felt like that terminal design was preferably to building yet another circle. Just something to think about.

DFW is building another semi-circle right now, and they have continued to build matching semi-circles throughout their history. They aren't moving away from it at all. I believe the square one is their international terminal, which is completely seperate..Functionally and design wise from the other terminals as is the norm at most other international terminals in most airports.

The square terminal is Terminal D which was designed by HNTB, Corgan Architects, and HKS. Rumor has it, all three of these firms were close to being fired from the project unless they came up with a design that offered what airport officials wanted and within budget.

[GRID]

The “convenience” of MCI is incredibly overblown. KC will never have a super busy and annoying world airport like Denver or Atlanta..

Convenience for who? Connecting flights average less than 10% of all passengers (Closer to 5% most years). I'd take inconveient for that 5-10% and super convenient for the other 95% any day! Building for the minority is beyond pointless. It is called the minority for a reason, and you can't always cater to a minority. Not without ruining it for the majority.

I'm not talking about connecting flights. I think MCI sucks as an origin/destination airport and I always have thought that (even when I lived in KC).

I get it that most people in KC don't agree and that's fine. It's no longer my home base airport, so I don't care (although it still gives a pretty terrible impression on KC). I was just there this weekend. I could gripe and tell stories, but I don't think anybody wants to hear it.

MCI sucks. But different strokes I guess...

[flyingember]

I just flew from KC to Charlotte via Midway.

Chicago is light and airy right after sunrise
Charlotte is light and airy even an hour before sunrise
KC is dark and dreary two hours after sunrise. I walked out and thought the lights were off, they weren't.

The Charlotte airport had these huge restrooms with no lines. midway's were smaller and busy.