OFFICIAL - New KCI Terminal

Transportation topics in KC
MidtownCat
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1930
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 12:05 pm
Location: ~Westwood~

Re: OFFICIAL - New KCI Terminal

Post by MidtownCat »

Definitely looks like we have SOM's C-team on the job, which isn't surprising. The quality of the design and the visuals have been downright depressing. I didn't think we were getting Singapore’s Changi but I also didn't think we were getting a basic step up from Wichita's Mid-Continent.

It's crazy how uninspiring the architecture is considering this is one of THE most important and significant architectural projects in the history of our city.

And lol at whoever said people don't care about the airport experience beyond getting from their car to the gate. That's great.
flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9862
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: OFFICIAL - New KCI Terminal

Post by flyingember »

The architects weren't getting more money for a while. Would you put a lot of effort into something that's purposefully on hold?
User avatar
WSPanic
Supporter
Posts: 3817
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: OFFICIAL - New KCI Terminal

Post by WSPanic »

flyingember wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:27 pm The architects weren't getting more money for a while. Would you put a lot of effort into something that's purposefully on hold?
They were either getting paid based on a contract - or they weren't. If they weren't being properly compensated, they should've stopped working. If they were being properly compensated, they should have done better.

Putting out garbage work because you're unhappy should NEVER be the solution for something as big as this. It's petty, unprofessional and irresponsible. It not only damages the reputation of the project, but also your company.
WoodDraw
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3348
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: OFFICIAL - New KCI Terminal

Post by WoodDraw »

I mean we're going to keep getting the bullshit from people in why they had to cut the roof and fountain. And then they'll put a fountain out in a park and be like see, we told you.

But they're not coming back. They were just lies.

I'm worried more now about the narrowness and transportation access.
MidtownCat
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1930
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 12:05 pm
Location: ~Westwood~

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by MidtownCat »

The original KCI was at least innovative for its time.

This is literally one of the worst, uninspired designs for a major airport I have ever seen. So sad to think we have completely squandered this opportunity to build something special with one of the most significant projects generations will see in this city.
User avatar
normalthings
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings »

MidtownCat wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:20 pm The original KCI was at least innovative for its time.

This is literally one of the worst, uninspired designs for a major airport I have ever seen. So sad to think we have completely squandered this opportunity to build something special with one of the most significant projects generations will see in this city.
So your saying bad innovation is better than a solid ,non innovative, upgrade?
User avatar
beautyfromashes
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 7189
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes »

How long would that fountain have been operational before being broken or shutdown for extended periods?
horizons82
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:41 am

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by horizons82 »

SOM is just now starting the schematic design phase, which is when the real design work starts for the most part. SD is when they'll start fleshing out finishes, furniture, glazing, food court layout, etc.

Already proclaiming the new terminal a qualitative failure based off of those last renderings maybe the dumbest thing you could do...but when has that stopped anybody?
normalthings wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:16 pm So your saying bad innovation is better than a solid ,non innovative, upgrade?
:lol:
flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9862
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember »

horizons82 wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:57 pm Already proclaiming the new terminal a qualitative failure based off of those last renderings maybe the dumbest thing you could do...but when has that stopped anybody
I would love to see early renderings try to show space and not put fake colors, lazy chairs and transparent people in it.
There’s nothing wrong with also trying to make them artistic and appear conceptual.

People expect the building to look exactly like a flat image today when they never would have in the past when they were line drawings.
User avatar
KCPowercat
Ambassador
Posts: 33839
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat »

WSPanic wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:46 pm
flyingember wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:27 pm The architects weren't getting more money for a while. Would you put a lot of effort into something that's purposefully on hold?
They were either getting paid based on a contract - or they weren't. If they weren't being properly compensated, they should've stopped working. If they were being properly compensated, they should have done better.

Putting out garbage work because you're unhappy should NEVER be the solution for something as big as this. It's petty, unprofessional and irresponsible. It not only damages the reputation of the project, but also your company.
I mean that's obviously not what was happening.
User avatar
KCPowercat
Ambassador
Posts: 33839
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat »

MidtownCat wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:20 pm The original KCI was at least innovative for its time.

This is literally one of the worst, uninspired designs for a major airport I have ever seen. So sad to think we have completely squandered this opportunity to build something special with one of the most significant projects generations will see in this city.
How is this any different than the new LGA terminal? What's happening here isn't unique.
MidtownCat
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1930
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 12:05 pm
Location: ~Westwood~

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by MidtownCat »

normalthings wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:16 pm [quote=MidtownCat post_id=590275 time=<a href="tel:1553725259">1553725259</a> user_id=243]
The original KCI was at least innovative for its time.

This is literally one of the worst, uninspired designs for a major airport I have ever seen. So sad to think we have completely squandered this opportunity to build something special with one of the most significant projects generations will see in this city.
So your saying bad innovation is better than a solid ,non innovative, upgrade?
[/quote]
normalthings wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:16 pm [quote=MidtownCat post_id=590275 time=<a href="tel:1553725259">1553725259</a> user_id=243]
The original KCI was at least innovative for its time.

This is literally one of the worst, uninspired designs for a major airport I have ever seen. So sad to think we have completely squandered this opportunity to build something special with one of the most significant projects generations will see in this city.
So your saying bad innovation is better than a solid ,non innovative, upgrade?
[/quote]

KCI was very innovative for its time. Before 9-11 it was one of the most convenient airports in the country. It outlived it’s usefullenss and was certainly time for a change.

The sad part is that we replaced it with absolutely nothing architecturally unique or significant, experitantially or otherwise with this new design. It’s the lamest and most banal solution possible. Literally lowest common denomenator that is the gateway to our city. But this is what happens when you have a city that didn’t push for anything beyond the status quo, backed into a silly budget from the outset and set zero expectations for design quality.
User avatar
KCPowercat
Ambassador
Posts: 33839
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat »

Pretty sad SOM would put their name on something that's already declared to be a failure.
WoodDraw
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3348
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by WoodDraw »

What even design % are we at right now?

SOM is best in class at this, so I expect they'll get better. My point, poorly made, is that I think the rollout has been awful.

That blame can be spread around a lot though.
MidtownCat
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1930
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 12:05 pm
Location: ~Westwood~

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by MidtownCat »

I love the comment above about wait until they get into schematic design and we have a better handle on their glazing and furniture package. That’s hilarious.

Here’s a little edification. When you go developer led design/build delivery on a $1.5 billion project, you set your design and lock in pricing at concept. They have already gone through multiple design and pricing iterations. Hence, why all the notable design characteristics like the unique scalloped roof and experiential grand lobby space have been removed.

Here’s a newsflash, the design ain’t getting better from this point forward. What you see in the renderings is going to be very close to what we are getting.

Again, the expectation wasn’t Changi. My hope now is that it’s at least on par with Dallas Love Field based on what they are rolling out. I even have my doubts on that one at this stage.

This is a bad design.
User avatar
KCPowercat
Ambassador
Posts: 33839
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat »

MC....why would a great firm like SOM put their name on something so ordinary? Maybe they all have to do it based on price set by clients but I had high hopes when they were announced to be working alongside edgmoor

End of the day if it functions well I am not broken up about an ordinary airport. It was never really in the cards for KC given the run up to it with money discussion and our driving airline being a boring ordinary airline. No airline was pushing to spend money to make this great and our council was more worried about the fiscal optics than push the airlines to sign up for a grander building.
flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9862
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember »

WoodDraw wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:06 am What even design % are we at right now?
About 15%. They stopped on purpose waiting on FAA approval. There's still plenty of time to change things. I wouldn't expect the roof to change much, but they can adjust things depending on how bids are coming in.

One piece that's not started yet is the art. There's going to be a ton of money for art. So even if the ceiling is flat, it's possible to use art to make it unique.
MidtownCat
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1930
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 12:05 pm
Location: ~Westwood~

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by MidtownCat »

KCPowercat wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:42 am MC....why would a great firm like SOM put their name on something so ordinary?
SOM is commanding in the neighborhood of $50 million in design fee. You would be surprised at what a design firm will put their name on. This also isn't a portfolio project for them.
flyingember wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:54 am
About 15%. They stopped on purpose waiting on FAA approval. There's still plenty of time to change things. I wouldn't expect the roof to change much, but they can adjust things depending on how bids are coming in.
I'll say it once more, the design is not changing significantly at this stage. As I explained earlier, design and cost for the project was presented as a full developer led design/build package at the selection phase. For all intents and purposes it's set and Edgemoor is beholden to it. That's why we've seen the design cuts that we have. It's called value engineering and it goes one direction from here. Stop being naive.
flyingember wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:54 am
One piece that's not started yet is the art. There's going to be a ton of money for art. So even if the ceiling is flat, it's possible to use art to make it unique.
If you are hoping for public art to save this project, good luck bro.
flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9862
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember »

Your pessimism is blinding, and provably wrong. I never said it would get a fancy roof, I said it could change and wasn't set in stone.

Notice the term "early stages"

February
https://www.constructiondive.com/news/a ... or/546472/
The project is still in the early stages of design, and Edgemoor managing director Geoffrey Stricker said the team has found $140 million of savings and could possibly make other changes that could lower costs as well. The $1.5 billion does not include the costs of financing.
User avatar
KCPowercat
Ambassador
Posts: 33839
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat »

Out of your league here. Just shut it down.
Post Reply