KC to STL Hyperloop

Transportation topics in KC
flyingember
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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby flyingember » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:50 pm

ldai_phs wrote:If we built bullet trains like China built them, soo many people would go to prison or get sued.

Sued? Go to the third from the bottom paragraph. They dismantled a government ministry.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-29655466

mean
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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby mean » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:15 pm

Man, when an American bureaucrat does that, it gets tied up in courts for ages and they probably end up with a slap on the wrist, assuming they even get caught in the first place and don't just get away with it entirely. China dismantles the whole agency and kills the administrator.

On some level you gotta kind of admire their style.

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby earthling » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:48 pm

So here's the wacky thing about things that Elon Musk touches. Tesla's market value is now higher than GM despite GM having a $9B profit recently and Tesla typically losing money. Some analysts claim Tesla loses $7K-$15K per car. Musk is not directly tied to Hyperloop management but did come up with original concepts and open-sourced it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-s ... SKBN17C1XF

If MODOT gets deep into this, they need to make sure wacky investors take the risk and not MO. Though expect Hyperloop management to be smart enough to exploit naive investors and a naive state/entity.
Last edited by earthling on Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby kcjak » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:41 am

Realistically, is Missouri even one of the top three candidates for this? The competition is global, and there are over three dozen to choose from. I hate to say it, but with the group selecting the finalists from all over the world, what are the chances that something not-so-sexy like a Missouri route would beat out Helsinki-Stockholm, six proposals in India, four in the UK or even something along the front range of the Rockies?

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby earthling » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:12 am

I think they plan on several deployments, including maybe more than one in US. Google Fiber selected KCK as first location out of 1100 applications. If Google Fiber fails, the hundreds of $millions of fiber investment in KC is still useful and it made KC one of most competitive ISP markets. Likely wouldn't be the case if Hyperloop fails, though MO could be smart about utilizing ROW for a new I70 per thread discussion.

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby flyingember » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:29 am

kcjak wrote:Realistically, is Missouri even one of the top three candidates for this? The competition is global, and there are over three dozen to choose from. I hate to say it, but with the group selecting the finalists from all over the world, what are the chances that something not-so-sexy like a Missouri route would beat out Helsinki-Stockholm, six proposals in India, four in the UK or even something along the front range of the Rockies?


When looking at the finalists, figure out what premium freight service can be provided on the route and on the route extending out from that. they're going to want to connect to existing freight hubs to begin with.

KC as a big logistics city for the Midwest isn't the worst choice. They could see how to replace long haul trucks by going in direct competition on one route.

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby earthling » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:54 am

And for freight the next natural extension would be STL<>Chicago and KC<>Dallas, two major freight connections for KC/STL. A huge % of product moving between coasts likely hits one of those 4 cities.

Of course the technology has a long way to go to prove itself at the speeds they claim and logistics to send many 'trains' at once in the tube, which seems very dangerous at those speeds.

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby dnweava » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:58 am

kcjak wrote:Realistically, is Missouri even one of the top three candidates for this? The competition is global, and there are over three dozen to choose from. I hate to say it, but with the group selecting the finalists from all over the world, what are the chances that something not-so-sexy like a Missouri route would beat out Helsinki-Stockholm, six proposals in India, four in the UK or even something along the front range of the Rockies?


we should be one of the top choices if they are looking to use freight to make it profitable. Chicago is the #1 freight hub, KC and STL are #2 and #3.

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby earthling » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:31 pm

grovester wrote:
earthling wrote:... Hyperloop is likely to select a state/entity that is naive enough to take on most of the risk for an over-hyped concept.


So you're saying there's a chance?


So Elon Musk himself is back into Hyperloop and making seemingly dubious claims of 'verbal approval' by White House for a DC/NYC line. If there is one entity naive and reckless enough to jump on board with other people's money (taxpayers), it would be you know whom. Can imagine he'd want his name on it in gold with sparkling trim and I'm not referring to Elon Musk.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-40677604

Would be fine if Hyperloop investors chip in for most of the project but it's pretty clear they are going after some locality/govt gullible enough to pay for it all and Musk probably found the perfect risk taker on the whole planet right here in the US (someone who has apparently gone bankrupt 4 or so times). A more pragmatic approach for Fed involvement would be to first engage in more solid 'proof of concepts' with more realistic testing of full claims before committing to a full blown deployment. Maybe that will happen in the end if there's any substance to this.

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby DaveKCMO » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:28 am

that route wasn't even on the "winning" list.

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby flyingember » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:39 am

Let them start digging the NYC to NJ tunnels that Christie took away the funding for.

If hyperloop fails at least would have that done

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby earthling » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:40 am

^If Hyperloop investors fund most of it, sure. Similar to premise I mentioned with new I-70 contingency plan on first page.

Curious that Elon Musk wasn't part of the Hyperloop management team at first, he just open-sourced the plans. Is (sadly) amusing that once someone insane enough is potentially found to take all the risk (our 'leader and commander in chief' whose name I just cannot say anymore, and his ragtag regime), Musk enters the picture.

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby shinatoo » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:48 am

The finals list was for Hyperloop One. That isnt a Musk company, i think he invested something like 2-3%. The Boring Company is his and is obviously a good fit for Hyperloop construction as its eaiser to maintain and doesn't require the same level of public right of way.

Hyperloop = a technology
Hyperloop One = a compnay not owned by Musk
The Boring Company = a compamy owned by Musk
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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby earthling » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:53 am

^Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking it was Musk's tunnel company that would apply HL One but now makes sense the boring company itself probably proposing its own HL I like his idea of using smart sleds on tunneled rails to haul commuting cars, could also be mixed with passenger sleds. Is more realistic than Hyperloop until HL has much more thorough testing to prove its claims, and many logistics to prove out too at those speeds.

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby shinatoo » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:38 pm

I don't get the impression that he is looking at the sled technology for this build, I think he is talking about the 700+MPH hyperloop like his napkin drawing.
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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby earthling » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:49 pm

^Right, the DC/NYC 'verbal approval' is for Hyperloop. Just adding the smart sled idea that was separately touted with the Boring Company is pretty slick and (relatively) more realistic. But also needs thorough testing and proof-of-concepts. And it seems to be intended to address metro area traffic, not inter-regional travel.

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby brewcrew1000 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:31 am

The strongest candidates for a Hyperloop are in from Hyperloop One
U.S.

Cheyenne – Denver – Puelbo (360 miles)
Chicago – Columbus – Pittsburgh (488 miles)
Miami – Orlando (257 miles)
Dallas – Houston (640 miles)
U.K.

Edinburgh – London (414 miles)
Glasgow – Liverpool (339 miles)
Mexico

Mexico City – Guadalajara (330 miles)
India

Bengaluru – Chennai (208 miles)
Mumbai – Chennai (685 miles)
Canada

Toronto – Montreal (400 miles)

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby DaveKCMO » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:37 am

interesting. i believe these have all been targeted for traditional high speed rail (200mph), except mexico city and columbus/pit.

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby brewcrew1000 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:51 am

The Denver Hyperloop is very interesting to me because its not really connecting 2-3 huge cities, it possible people are thinking the Front Range could turn into one huge mega region. Cheap Housing in Pueblo + a $10-20 Ticket into your office in Denver could be very enticing to a lot of people. I could see the Front Range reaching population levels of 8-9 Million people in the next 20-30 years.

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Re: KC to STL Hyperloop

Postby flyingember » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:47 am

brewcrew1000 wrote:The Denver Hyperloop is very interesting to me because its not really connecting 2-3 huge cities, it possible people are thinking the Front Range could turn into one huge mega region. Cheap Housing in Pueblo + a $10-20 Ticket into your office in Denver could be very enticing to a lot of people. I could see the Front Range reaching population levels of 8-9 Million people in the next 20-30 years.


I don't think you would see a lot of long-distance commuting until the tech is long proven because if it breaks down you're stuck 115 miles away.

It wouldn't create a connected series of suburbs mega region as much as it would allow people within reach of a station to travel long distances. Like all modes, the more stops the slower it goes.

Let's say this turns out to be the greatest thing ever. It will do exactly what public transportation does but on a larger scale, it will concentrate people and jobs at the stops.


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