Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

[beautyfromashes]

Brookside gets nothing.

The south terminus will be in South Plaza. Do they have to pay? 1 mile from Brookside. How can you say they will get nothing? If people aren't going to ride from UMKC/South Plaza/Brookside to DT for restaurants and bars, work, etc. then it's a waste and you're cementing my no vote more and more. I'm kind of surprised at the arrogant statements of how the vote will go. Seems people would be trying to sell the benefits instead of just counting their eggs. After strongly supporting the last vote, my strong yes vote is now in the no camp. You've lost me.

[chingon]

The city would be smart to see if some sort of something for everyone plan would make sense.

That would be and has proven to be utter folly.

I didn't say it had to include east of Troost. Could do a bigger set of projects west of troost as a package deal.

imagine in the urban core bike lanes and bike share + train + truely rapid BRT on Broadway or Troost or SW Twafficway (reroute MAX to a different street through midtown with an optional streetcar connection) + road resurfacing with road diets? Basically do more things around transit and improving midtown. we talk about needing dedicated funding for lots of project, a great plan could also take a small area and do all that so people can see what these projects produce. Be the model for residents in places like OP, Gladstone, Raytown and such.

the commuter system could be a fund to save towards KC's portion of the commuter line. KC having the money available could be the chicken that gets the county to get their funding in line.

Gotcha. Seems I misunderstood what you were saying.

[DaveKCMO]

Will the additional taxes paid by Midtown residents be the same as the additional taxes downtown residents paid? DT has much more business to tap into than US-Plaza. Also, they have a higher percentage of wealthy residents. Look at the demographics of midtown before you stick them with a big new tax bill while Brookside gets off paying nothing.

your perception of the special assessments is skewed. your house has to be within 1/3-mile of the tracks AND be worth a shit-ton of money (by jackson county's low standards) to be paying more than a couple hundred dollars per YEAR.

are you further than 1/3-mile from the tracks and don't shop inside the TDD? YOU PAY NOTHING.

downtown has more property value, but plaza/westport produce far more sales tax -- much of it from non-residents.

[chingon]

Brookside gets nothing.

The south terminus will be in South Plaza. Do they have to pay? 1 mile from Brookside. How can you say they will get nothing? If people aren't going to ride from UMKC/South Plaza/Brookside to DT for restaurants and bars, work, etc. then it's a waste and you're cementing my no vote more and more. I'm kind of surprised at the arrogant statements of how the vote will go. Seems people would be trying to sell the benefits instead of just counting their eggs. After strongly supporting the last vote, my strong yes vote is now in the no camp. You've lost me.

I don't quite understand why you voted for it before, then. I mean, aren't there always going to be people riding the line who didn't pay (in property taxes, that is, since everyone will pay the sales tax portions) for it? I would hope so. Like out-of-towners, Johnson Countians in for a night on the town, commuters going to lunch.

I just don't get how people riding from Brookside into downtown on a midtown/downtown funded line would be any different than people from North KC driving to city market then taking the streetcar around downtown. I thought that was the point?

[beautyfromashes]

Well, I'm within 1/3-mile, so my vote counts. Will my assessment be the same as a downtown resident?

[grovester]

Brookside gets nothing.

The south terminus will be in South Plaza. Do they have to pay? 1 mile from Brookside. How can you say they will get nothing? If people aren't going to ride from UMKC/South Plaza/Brookside to DT for restaurants and bars, work, etc. then it's a waste and you're cementing my no vote more and more. I'm kind of surprised at the arrogant statements of how the vote will go. Seems people would be trying to sell the benefits instead of just counting their eggs. After strongly supporting the last vote, my strong yes vote is now in the no camp. You've lost me.

As will Westwood and Prairie Village. It's not the same. You have to draw a line somewhere. The only guaranteed fail is a city wide vote.

[beautyfromashes]

I voted for it before because it was the entire city coming together and paying their piece of the pie. Sure, not everyone, but more than 1/3 mile along the 3 mile line. You're basically carving out this little territory that is largely middle and low income and sticking it to me with a much larger bill than last time.

[beautyfromashes]

You have to draw a line somewhere.

Yes, and you've drawn a line around me and my small neighborhood. Why would you expect me to like that?

[beautyfromashes]

and I'm not asking for a citywide vote. The boundaries should include from Union Station to Gregory/75th St from State Line to Troost.

[grovester]

But then all those drunks at Tasso's will be getting a free ride.

[JBmidtown]

Suck it up, pay some taxes, and watch our city turn into more than just a parking lot wasteland with an over worked KCATA trying to cover car based sprawl with bus based sprawl. I just don't get it. I've lived in the KC metro area for 23 years of my 27 years on this planet. I've visited other successful cities with cozy density and with high-visibility transit creating a vibrant and connected sense of identity. Here it seems everyone wants to claim this city's identity without giving a flying fuck about how it's slowly been picked apart by car culture, white flight, and an insanely frustrating, reactionary public.

I would take ANY kind of improvement to this crappy bus system. A streetcar system shows a desire by the city, and the people who live here, to invest in something more permanent than rubber on asphalt. The visibility of the system, the frequency and reliability of the routes and the sense of placement and permanence from rails in the mother fucking ground makes you feel like you're in the VEINS of a living breathing city...not just a collection of shopping malls and suburbs that ships its register-working underclass in on the bus.

[JBmidtown]

And yes, I'm calling out midtown neighborhoods as suburbs. The mentality of the residents and the nature of their design prove it

[loftguy]

Suck it up, pay some taxes, and watch our city turn into more than just a parking lot wasteland with an over worked KCATA trying to cover car based sprawl with bus based sprawl. I just don't get it. I've lived in the KC metro area for 23 years of my 27 years on this planet. I've visited other successful cities with cozy density and with high-visibility transit creating a vibrant and connected sense of identity. Here it seems everyone wants to claim this city's identity without giving a flying fuck about how it's slowly been picked apart by car culture, white flight, and an insanely frustrating, reactionary public.

I would take ANY kind of improvement to this crappy bus system. A streetcar system shows a desire by the city, and the people who live here, to invest in something more permanent than rubber on asphalt. The visibility of the system, the frequency and reliability of the routes and the sense of placement and permanence from rails in the mother fucking ground makes you feel like you're in the VEINS of a living breathing city...not just a collection of shopping malls and suburbs that ships its register-working underclass in on the bus.

You are so awesome.

[mean]

That would be and has proven to be utter folly. The plan that just failed made a lot of sense for a lot of people (disproportionately so for those east of Troost) and it got thrashed. Fuck em, they got an east side MAX route already that is well used, if that's all they want out of transit, or all they'll support at the ballot box, work on a Prospect MAX and better crosstown service, that's simple, cheap and attainable. And fuck the Northland, too. They simply do not understand the importance of transit north of the river, do not care or actively do not want it . Plain and simple. So give them what they want. You make your bed, you lie in it.

Meanwhile the only horse in town that will drink the water its been lead to is the RCP corridor. Let them drink the well dry, and when the SW Corridor, the East Side, or the Northland cries about not having it, tell them to go play in traffic...

"Fuck 'em" has been the city's attitude toward neighborhoods east of Troost for as long as anyone can remember. I wouldn't say it has worked out particularly well.

[DaveKCMO]

what the 4th district council candidates say about streetcar expansion:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/co ... 54286.html
http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/co ... 53989.html

glover (at-large incumbent):

I support expansion of the streetcar into districts and neighborhoods that welcome the project. In particular, and following support documented by last year’s election returns, I support the construction of a north-south expansion line, which will connect the University of Missouri - Kansas City, the Crossroads Arts District and the Plaza. I believe that east-west expansion lines will serve the public interest, but that belief remains contingent on community support.

shields (at-large):

Given that we have already begun the building of the downtown phase 1, expanding it to the Plaza/UMKC area seems to make sense. With better planning, it need not be as disruptive to nearby businesses. However, I would not support the use of the half-cent transportation tax (mostly intended for buses) to help fund this extension.

justus (in-district):

I am generally supportive of expanding the existing streetcar line, but I need additional information including proposed routes and funding sources before I can support a specific plan.

fierro (in-district):

Although I support the economic development that follows streetcar implementation, I recognize there is considerable work to do to reconcile the voice of KC voters with considerations for multimodal transportation alternatives. We should engage a citizens group to study financial options including public/private partnerships, hotel/motel tourism tax, fares, advertising and sponsorship and surcharge on auto registrations.

[pash]

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[DaveKCMO]

hey, look who's on the panel! http://americanpublicsquare.org/event/a ... car-named/

[pash]

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[grovester]

Will this be greco-roman or freestyle?

[pash]

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