Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

[mykn]

So it looks like a lot of the failed Phase 2 talk is being distributed through a few different threads here. I'm creating a new one to centralize the discussion and hopefully strategize for the next urban rail push.

So, where do you think we went wrong?
What could we do better in the future?
What expansion corridors do we look to in the future?
Does anyone have any cheap real estate in Portland? (kidding!)

Here's my take.

Disclaimer: I follow this stuff online and talk with a lot of the people who are truly working hard on transit in KC. I'm certainly not clued in on everything that is happening or even have a great understanding of urban planning or transit systems. At the end of the day, this is just internet quarterbacking

So, where do you think we went wrong?
I'm going to throw a few ideas out there:

* Mainstreet+

It seemed like the first bit of trouble for Phase 2 came from the Trolley Trail Expansion. That's when I noticed the opposition became well funded and organized beyond what I saw in Phase 1. From the get go, Mainstreet+ scored low on the funding charts and (seemed like) a nice to have. Hindsight is 20/20, but I think if the plan was to always end at UMKC, we wouldn't have kicked the hornets nest.

* Size of the Eastside sales tax district
When I first saw the expanded TDD map I was a bit shocked by how far East it went. I'm wondering if others saw that and thought it was a money grab from the East side. I'm sure there was a great reason for it, and I know the Mainstreet extension was heavily subsidizing the Eastern lines, but I can't help think that the boundary was a turn off to some.

* Moving too quickly
I totally get the reasoning for this. As someone said last night at the watch party, "I hope it's not President Cruz in a few years". That being said, I think it's fair for people to want to see how the first line goes before enacting a large tax on themselves. For all they know, we see no change downtown and the streetcar doesn't really help anything. I think that wont be the case, but I wouldn't fault someone for being caution.

What could we do better in the future?
At this point, I think we need to go back to the original strategy of identifying areas that are very supportive and building there. The line needs to go to UMKC/Plaza and that area just so happens to be very supportive and able to pay for it.

What expansion corridors do we look to in the future?
Mainstreet from Union Station to Plaza/UMKC
Mainstreet to Westport/39th Street (Pipedream)


So that being said, what do you all think?

[Armorek]

I've mentioned this in another thread.

Maybe it was a little too ambitious? Starting with Brookside and then lumping in Eastside and Linwood seemed like a big undertaking. Although Brookside was eventually removed from the equation, I agree with the original post here it probably stirred up more trouble than it was worth.

The next time around it should solely focus on expansion to UMKC. It's the thing I see people complaining about on any comment box about the streetcar. "The starter line doesn't even go to the Plaza. What a waste!" Something like this is always said by someone somewhere.

I personally feel like we need more hard facts and numbers to throw in the face of the opposition. Like benefits over bus expansion, actual investment numbers in downtown (I guess connectkc isn't good enough for members of the opposition), and how it can change the city for the better. A lot of this information we won't be able to get until the starter line is up and running.

I personally don't see the streetcar as 'complete' until it at least goes to the plaza. Maybe next time around the benefits are shown to out weigh the risks so much that it's a landslide, like the starter line was. We'll just have to see what the city plans on doing.

[mykn]

I've mentioned this in another thread.

Maybe it was a little too ambitious? Starting with Brookside and then lumping in Eastside and Linwood seemed like a big undertaking. Although Brookside was eventually removed from the equation, I agree with the original post here it probably stirred up more trouble than it was worth.

The next time around it should solely focus on expansion to UMKC. It's the thing I see people complaining about on any comment box about the streetcar. "The starter line doesn't even go to the Plaza. What a waste!" Something like this is always said by someone somewhere.

I personally feel like we need more hard facts and numbers to throw in the face of the opposition. Like benefits over bus expansion, actual investment numbers in downtown (I guess connectkc isn't good enough for members of the opposition), and how it can change the city for the better. A lot of this information we won't be able to get until the starter line is up and running.

I personally don't see the streetcar as 'complete' until it at least goes to the plaza. Maybe next time around the benefits are shown to out weigh the risks so much that it's a landslide, like the starter line was. We'll just have to see what the city plans on doing.

Another reason to wait until Phase 1 is complete: Construction

Currently, if someone in the larger TDD drives through Downtown, they don't see a streetcar integrating into the daily lives of the citizens, they see a ton of torn up roads and a bunch of noisy construction work. Now, that's the reality of putting in a rail system, but I don't want that to be someones first impression when they are deciding if they want this to come through their neighborhood! If people could see it working, it would be a much easier sell.

[FangKC]

I don't think we are going to get any expansion lines east-west until the streetcar goes to the Plaza, and enough years have passed to demonstrate that:

1. people ride it,
2. it is responsible for investment, and regeneration of those corridors with renovations of buildings, low-to-no vacancy rates in retail spaces, and new development,
3. people see surface parking lots disappear because there are new buildings on them,
4. retail returns to areas where there was little or none before,
5. retail and residential spaces demand more rent, and higher purchase prices, along the streetcar line,
6. population density grows faster along the corridor than elsewhere,
7. the corridor sees a net increase in jobs.

[mykn]

Maybe I spoke too soon or let the disappointment of last night sink in too much.

Lynn Horsley just tweeted the following:

"An analysis of #KC streetcar election results shows it PASSED along the Main Street Corridor but got CRUSHED East of Troost."

I'm starting to think we should push for expansion on Main to UMKC/Plaza. Everyone knows that will for sure make the streetcar a success and it's truly a logical step that can pay for itself and get federal matching funds (I believe it scored the highest out of all potential extensions).

[kboish]

Maybe I spoke too soon or let the disappointment of last night sink in too much.

Lynn Horsley just tweeted the following:

"An analysis of #KC streetcar election results shows it PASSED along the Main Street Corridor but got CRUSHED East of Troost."

I'm starting to think we should push for expansion on Main to UMKC/Plaza. Everyone knows that will for sure make the streetcar a success and it's truly a logical step that can pay for itself and get federal matching funds (I believe it scored the highest out of all potential extensions).

That is amazing. I'm in agreement with a push for the River-Crown-Plaza line to get built out. Clearly this is something people who live in that area want (I'm one of them).

Also, I'm willing to bet that this is one of those things where once it is up and running from River to the Plaza- people will still be crying the East Side doesn't get any investment and that it is unfair nothing gets built over there....welp, they certainly missed their chance on this one.

[pash]

.

[chingon]

Well, I feel a little better. I'm off the ledge now, Max. I'd say the path forward is clear, at least...

[swid]

I'd love to know exactly what it was that caused Freedom Inc. to support the statewide transportation sales tax and simultaneously oppose the expanded streetcar TDD creation.

For some reason, I don't believe it was based on any sober economic analysis that concluded the East Side could support a 3/4-cent sales tax (that wouldn't provide any direct benefit to the area) but not a 1-cent one (that would)...

[smh]

I'd love to know exactly what it was that caused Freedom Inc. to support the statewide transportation sales tax and simultaneously oppose the expanded streetcar TDD creation.

For some reason, I don't believe it was based on any sober economic analysis that concluded the East Side could support a 3/4-cent sales tax (that wouldn't provide any direct benefit to the area) but not a 1-cent one (that would)...

$$$. Freedom is pay to play.

[chaglang]

Is there a way to find out how the vote broke down by ward? I'm curious how the other Freedom backed issues fared on the east side- Amendment 7 in particular.

[KCPowercat]

"the city ignores us"....

"hey, let's lay two rail lines and a BRT east and a large majority of the money comes from outside your neighborhood"

"Nah"

So, in my mind...we tried it....our neighbors to the east don't want it...we move forward with those who do.

[pash]

.

[Eon Blue]

Is there a way to find out how the vote broke down by ward? I'm curious how the other Freedom backed issues fared on the east side- Amendment 7 in particular.

YES

*popcorn.gif*

[mean]

"the city ignores us"....

"hey, let's lay two rail lines and a BRT east and a large majority of the money comes from outside your neighborhood"

"Nah"

So, in my mind...we tried it....our neighbors to the east don't want it...we move forward with those who do.

Your neighbors to the east were misled and misinformed. If the messaging about bringing development east had been better, I believe it would have been a no-doubter. Unfortunately the anti-streetcar crowd dominated the discourse out here. They had tons of TV and radio ads, as well as Freedom in their pocket, targeted specifically to the black community because they knew eastside votes could sink this thing. They were either smarter about targeted messaging than the pro side, or they had more money. It's that simple. Having Sly on board was obviously not adequately persuasive.

I say come back when the benefits have been fully realized in phase one, and say, "Look, you can have this too!"

[pash]

.

[chaglang]

If the eastside messaging and voter ed was better on this, I'd agree with you. My takeaway from the meeting at the Mohart Center in February was that there was a huge amount of bitterness over 71 being a pass-thru transit project, when promises were made that it would be an economic driver for the eastside. So any new transit project would have to overcome that. There was also a basic ignorance of the benefits of streetcar as opposed to busses. From what I could tell, neither of those were problems were addressed effectively. There also seemed to be some unevenness in where mailers, etc., were sent (I received 0, but know people along Main who received 4 or more) - but that could have been part of a "likely voter" strategy of some kind. There was probably more than that going on, but it wasn't too clear.

[KCPowercat]

"the city ignores us"....

"hey, let's lay two rail lines and a BRT east and a large majority of the money comes from outside your neighborhood"

"Nah"

So, in my mind...we tried it....our neighbors to the east don't want it...we move forward with those who do.

Your neighbors to the east were misled and misinformed. If the messaging about bringing development east had been better, I believe it would have been a no-doubter. Unfortunately the anti-streetcar crowd dominated the discourse out here. They had tons of TV and radio ads, as well as Freedom in their pocket, targeted specifically to the black community because they knew eastside votes could sink this thing. They were either smarter about targeted messaging than the pro side, or they had more money. It's that simple. Having Sly on board was obviously not adequately persuasive.

I say come back when the benefits have been fully realized in phase one, and say, "Look, you can have this too!"

Then they need to have leaders there that give them the right message....as much as I want it to help the entire urban core, I don't have much skin the game in those neighborhoods....but yeah I agree maybe their attitude will change when its running in Phase 1 (and 2 probably).

It's pretty easy to figure out where the funding was coming from...it wasn't Woodys grocers and 7-11....it was the stadiums and the river/crown/plaza.

[mean]

Leaders? The leaders out here are bought and paid for, I'm afraid.

[KCPowercat]

Leaders? The leaders out here are bought and paid for, I'm afraid.

So no leaders and voters don't research issues...wait, that's all of America. *rimshot*

I don't pretend to know the answer but damn.