Regional Transit Coordination

Transportation topics in KC
chingon
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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by chingon » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:47 am

GRID wrote:^ Is that a metro or jo bus? Are they going to rebrand all the buses (metro an jo) this way?
I think all the bus systems under KCATA control are going to look like that. The ones in the picture, at least, are Metro buses. The red one is a MAX bus.

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by DaveKCMO » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:33 am

the next big conversation is fares. currently, there is no regional fare structure (even though there is some reciprocity with day and month passes). thankfully, it's all on the table -- no fare, lower fares, no transfers, regional fare card, off-board payment, etc.

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by mykn » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:06 pm

Getting on a bus needs to be effortless to attract a lot of current non-bus users. Either no fares or App based payment need to be options. If it's off-board payment, there's still friction with users using cash or credit to get a pass.

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by swid » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:29 pm

While no fares would be nice, I don't think that's viable politically.

So, assuming that fares continue to exist (and on this, I'll plead indifference to how they're calculated on a per-trip basis), this would be a good time to consider investing in technologies to minimize the use of cash. My optimal/most future-proofed scenario would be to implement a system that can handle multiple forms of contactless payment, but in lieu of that, I think a code-scanning (barcode or QR) system would be the next-best system. In either case, you should be able to load up your card/account (or have if auto-deduct from a linked account, if set up).

tl;dr version - make it something like London's Oyster card system in ticketing logic (and also in that a regional fare card should exist).

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by flyingember » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:35 pm

there's NO way that cash can be killed.

we're talking about a core demographic that doesn't universally have a bank account. So that killed contactless, apps and credit cards. Payment cards from jobs tend to be scammy so we don't want to encourage them. Cash will be supported for a long time

what would make sense is to charge but make it an all day unlimited use pass for the same cost. encourage stop and go use. Perfect for shopping, tourism, after school use.
And don't make it a calendar day pass but one that works starting with the first swipe. Swipe at 5pm, it works until 5pm the next day. Great for a night shift.

This means everyone pays once and only once each day, worst case.

so you have 24 hours, 7 days, 31 days. They all start when you first swipe it.
Simpler payment structures encourage buying upwards. And this helps with speed. If you buy a 7 day pass every Monday you just slowed down getting on only once in the week. Don't need a 5 day pass option because if you're on vacation from Saturday to Saturday you have to choose when not to use transit. It just makes things harder.

One thing I always hate for StL Metrolink is the 2 hour pass. If you spend 30 each way on the train that's an hour at your destination. Not near enough time. I've rode the train every time I've been to that city and it always bugs me.

I tend to buy longer passes on vacations so I only have to do it once.

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by DaveKCMO » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:32 pm

flyingember wrote:there's NO way that cash can be killed.
it can be killed on-board, where it causes the most problems.

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by mykn » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:48 pm

Cash should always be supported but I feel (and I may be alone here) that many people now never carry cash and are never in a position to buy a multi day pass, so they don't use transit because it's easier and less complicated to take Uber/their own car. It would be much easier for me to convince my wife to hop on the Max to the plaza if we could just hop on board or quickly swipe a card. It's similar to the bike rentals, if we had to gather up cash/change or go mess with buying a paper card, we would never use them. They are rather quick and easy to use (actually, they need to vastly simplify their interface, it's a pain to use), and so we use them.

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by DaveKCMO » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:04 pm

moving between systems will get a lot easier on january 1. these fare products will be accepted regionwide:

Image

the second item out of view indicates change cards will not be accepted between systems. not a big deal since most people don't even know they exist.

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by KCPowercat » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:24 pm

DC and Chicago both have killed cash except at vending machines.

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by DaveKCMO » Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:43 am

KCPowercat wrote:DC and Chicago both have killed cash except at vending machines.
not on buses. no US agency has done that yet, to my knowledge.

http://www.wmata.com/fares/metrobus.cfm
http://www.transitchicago.com/fares/

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by flyingember » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:20 am

London went cash free last year. Apparently they dropped from 25% cash fares to 1% from 2004 to 2014. So whatever they did could be a model for US cities.

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by TheSmokinPun » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:36 am

flyingember wrote:London went cash free last year. Apparently they dropped from 25% cash fares to 1% from 2004 to 2014. So whatever they did could be a model for US cities.
Really helps when your contactless bank card can be used to pay your fare. Blame the US banks for dropping the ball on RFID cards, which are basically required by law now, to be so slowly added.

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by pash » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:27 pm

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Last edited by pash on Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by flyingember » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:24 pm

Are we sure it's only having cards that does it? One system out in southern California put a report out this year that only 1/3 of their riders use monthly pass cards. It looks like the cards have to provide some financial or time benefit to the user to get used.

London clearly made it easy because there's no time spent loading fare at a machine. No hassle has value to people. I dislike prepaid most of the time. i have a Boston fare card from 2009 that I never used up. I have a Houston card from this year that has one ride left on it. People hate wasting money, it's the principle of the thing.

Houston gives free rides after X paid rides if you use the card. So it's worth it to make the effort to get one for locals.
UTA gives a fare discount for using the card. This has value for everyone.

It's also not a specified time pass where you feel like you're getting less use than you paid for.
I have a 5 day NOLA fare card I used for four days, I have a 3 day CTA pass I used only in the morning the third day. It's not a big deal for me financially but it puts people less well off in a tough bind. Do they pay for a three day pass and buy single use tickets a fourth day or a five day pass and have paid too much?

So this leads to what I think KC should do. Give a fare discount for using the card. It replaces all passes. Give a single ride discount for using the card. So we end up with pay as you go value cards
Then offer some kind of early adopter bonus, like buy $100 worth of fare for $95 in the first few months.

And come back and implement larger up front discounts than the current paper passes. Like pre-pay for 12 months unlimited service at a discount.

A fare card could also take a cue from the zoo. If you live inside a streetcar TDD, a four user (two adult, two child) Ride KC family pass costs less than four monthly passes does and the two cards are linked. This would benefit parents, they swipe the card and it lets them and two children on. The other parent swipes their card too. Don't need to carry around fare for children, making things easier.

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by grovester » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:42 pm

Reardon moving on from ATA. Was really hoping for more time for his supposed high profile to work magic on regional transit. Is this a sign that the normal regional issues persist or was the new job just too shiny to resist?

http://www.kansascity.com/news/governme ... 32770.html

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by flyingember » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:36 pm

What matters more is the board being interested in the changes. If Reardon put in place changes that are having clear benefits with public support they would be stupid not to support them continuing with someone new.

The one change I noticed and made sense is the downtown stop consolidation. I was amazed that only in 1.5 miles of Grand, 8th to 25th, there were (still are as of this posting) 26 stops when you add up both directions, basically one every 0.1 miles. The removal plan taking away 14 of the stops shows how many extra stops there were.

Reardon's path also is a logical path for regional transit support. He also can talk about transit access to jobs, and how it can be done cost effectively, without looking ignorant. Imagine if he starts to get businesses on board to fund more bus service. It would go a long way to getting a regional transit tax if the Chamber and it's members support it strongly. These are the same groups that can petition neighboring cities to come on board.

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by DaveKCMO » Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:27 pm

KCATA board today approved a single, regional fare for all local* bus service -- $1.50

*excludes some commuter and express routes

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by bobbyhawks » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:52 pm

Dang, that is still so cheap.

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by DaveKCMO » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:43 pm

bobbyhawks wrote:Dang, that is still so cheap.
true that. $2+ is the new norm.

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Re: Regional Transit Coordination

Post by flyingember » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:30 pm

I was intrigued so here's bus fare for the 10 largest cities in the US.

Chicago 2.00
NYC 2.75
LA 1.75
Houston 1.25
Philly 2.25
Phoenix 2.00
San Diego 2.25
San Antonio 1.20
Dallas 2.50/1.75 (cheaper middle if day)
San Jose 2.00

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