New Broadway Bridge

Transportation topics in KC
earthling
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby earthling » Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:00 pm

Most urban areas also have 10X better metro wide transit than KC, that suburban people aren't afraid to use. Will take a while to get there.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby ldai_phs » Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:05 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:1. rail tunnel -- have inquired. access to the trench area to connect with any other network is the challenge. lots of stuff in the way in all directions.
2. redevelopment -- i envision a nonprofit entity overseeing the sale of individual parcels. if someone's willing to outbid everyone to purchase a large amount of them, development standards should guide what's built (more rigorous than what's in place now). that's actually a good idea for the north loop anyway.

If viaduct to KCK is no longer used for I-70, could part of it be converted to carry a light trail or streetcar to KCK(It could then run west down Minnesota Avenue). In turn, streetcar along independence avenue could terminate under north loop using some existing infrastructure?

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby flyingember » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:48 pm

The EB span could be 35mph four lane parkway. I picture keeping it around for express bus service, local cars and such. This would give direct KCK to northland access and keep US 169 on it. Maybe bike lanes too, but there's already a bike lane underneath. I picture a slow speed access ramp much like Chavez road to the bottoms has today. The PIEA owns a parcel with nearly the right alignment near the prison. A direct ramp and light would dramatically improve access into the bottoms.

The WB span at 3.5 lanes wide would be perfect for a train line. Even if there's a new deck, maintaining the pylons would save a fortune and likely accelerate rail to downtown KCK by a couple decades.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby DaveKCMO » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:21 pm

ldai_phs wrote:If viaduct to KCK is no longer used for I-70, could part of it be converted to carry a light trail or streetcar to KCK(It could then run west down Minnesota Avenue).


the historic part of the intercity viaduct was originally built for cars AND streetcars (streetcars didn't last long). KCK has expressed some interest in this scenario, but nothing formal has ever advanced (and don't get me started on KDOT's perspective on the north loop).

dan coffey can suck on that for a bit. hey, dan!

In turn, streetcar along independence avenue could terminate under north loop using some existing infrastructure?


you wouldn't "terminate" any streetcar extension at the north loop, but, rather, connect it the mainline and provide a variety of single-seat rides north and south (or east, if anything is ever built in that direction).

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby WoodDraw » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:36 pm

http://www.kansascity.com/news/business ... 02083.html

Possibly 2019. I can't figure out how they're going to fund this.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby rxlexi » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:02 pm

Possibly 2019. I can't figure out how they're going to fund this.


It sounds like they're thinking repairs only at this time, to get through another 10 or 20 years, rather than bridge replacement?

I hope this opportunity to re-think and redesign the north loop is taken advantage of - the dead zone between City Market and the heart of the DT loop is such a disappointment.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby DaveKCMO » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:07 pm

i'm surprised there's no outrage yet about a TWO-YEAR SHUTDOWN.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby flyingember » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:31 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:i'm surprised there's no outrage yet about a TWO-YEAR SHUTDOWN.

there's 8 other bridges. Some people just have to detour onto one of them.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby grovester » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:06 pm

Well if it's a safety issue....Actually I just assume it's another parry in MODOT's quest for more funding.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby kcjak » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:16 am

DaveKCMO wrote:i'm surprised there's no outrage yet about a TWO-YEAR SHUTDOWN.


Most people won't know something is happening until the day they try to cross and it's shut down - that's when the outrage will occur, and they'll be screaming 'Why didn't we know sooner?!?'

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby flyingember » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:00 am

kcjak wrote:
DaveKCMO wrote:i'm surprised there's no outrage yet about a TWO-YEAR SHUTDOWN.


Most people won't know something is happening until the day they try to cross and it's shut down - that's when the outrage will occur, and they'll be screaming 'Why didn't we know sooner?!?'


Modot is pretty good at putting notice signs up well in advance. Only the most dense won't know

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby shaffe » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:54 pm

flyingember wrote:there's 8 other bridges. Some people just have to detour onto one of them.


Care to name the 8? There's two bridges, six lanes of traffic each way, that serve as a reasonable detour for the tens of thousands who take that bridge every single day. It was a sizeable annoyance when they closed the viaduct for several months a couple of years ago. A 2 year shutdown is going to suck pretty hard for any northlander who commutes south of the river for much of anything.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby flyingember » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:11 pm

435, 635, Fairfax, HOA, 35, Chouteau, 435, 291

looking south to north traffic-

HOA has streetlights and 35 will become a pain but there's alternatives
From KCK or Cambridge Circle you take 7th St to Fairfax Bridge
from Mission or south you take 635 to 9 or 29.
From the east side the Chouteau Bridge is usually rather empty, it connects to 210 and 35
from further east can use 435 at the stadiums and get off on 35, 210 or 152
taking 435 to 152 isn't that bad a route for further north destinations
291 to 210 isn't horrible for Indep sourced traffic, though I would go to 435 over this

they may not be as direct, but there's almost nowhere in the city that can't find a nearby alternative that adds 10% time at most.

Not everyone using it has to use it, most people will have an alternative they already don't use. I was commuting north to south for half a year and MO 9 to 635 to 35 was quicker than going downtown and taking 169, which was more direct.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby scooterj » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:10 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:i'm surprised there's no outrage yet about a TWO-YEAR SHUTDOWN.


I live up north and it's being discussed on Nextdoor. A couple of people are worried but most would rather have 5-10 minutes of inconvenience for a couple of years than to have what happened in Minneapolis happen here. Based on Paseo Bridge experience and shorter Broadway experiences everyone seems to expect the first week suck and then quickly get better as people find the detour routes that work best for them.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:14 pm

Private public partnership with a toll?

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:43 am

KCPowercat wrote:Private public partnership with a toll?

Thought the state didn't allow tolls anymore.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby flyingember » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:21 am

aknowledgeableperson wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:Private public partnership with a toll?

Thought the state didn't allow tolls anymore.


The state doesn't want to fund modot enough to build a bridge, if the city came with an offer that included tolls there may be interest in the idea

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby KCPowercat » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:56 am

How is the community bridge in LOTO done legally?

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby TheBigChuckbowski » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:10 am

Wouldn't adding a toll push so much traffic off the bridge that the cost of the replacement bridge would no longer be worth it?

I also think we should study putting that much money into sending the streetcar north of the river, how much traffic that would take off the bridges.

Also, is replacement really necessary to reconfiguring the north loop?

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby WoodDraw » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:04 pm

TheBigChuckbowski wrote:Wouldn't adding a toll push so much traffic off the bridge that the cost of the replacement bridge would no longer be worth it?

I also think we should study putting that much money into sending the streetcar north of the river, how much traffic that would take off the bridges.

Also, is replacement really necessary to reconfiguring the north loop?


These are all good questions, especially the first. Since most drivers here are used to free parking, no tolls, and low gas taxes, I'm going to go with not a chance on that.

I'm excited to read the study when it comes out.


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