Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Transportation topics in KC
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by beautyfromashes »

DaveKCMO wrote:
beautyfromashes wrote:When the Federal Reserve was built, didn't they designate all of their TIF funds to go to Main St. and be administered by Maincor (yuck!)? That is how all the street improvements were paid for Main between 47th St. and Linwood. Why can't they access those funds to expand the starter line?
because they spent it all? that was a pricey streetscape.
Yes, but wouldn't the money continue to be generated to the TIF?
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by DaveKCMO »

beautyfromashes wrote:
DaveKCMO wrote:
beautyfromashes wrote:When the Federal Reserve was built, didn't they designate all of their TIF funds to go to Main St. and be administered by Maincor (yuck!)? That is how all the street improvements were paid for Main between 47th St. and Linwood. Why can't they access those funds to expand the starter line?
because they spent it all? that was a pricey streetscape.
Yes, but wouldn't the money continue to be generated to the TIF?
sure, but even a pricey streetscape is $1 million per mile. streetcar is $62 million per mile (although half would come from feds).
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smh
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by smh »

Streetscapes get expensive when every lamppost says "Main Street!" and there is a lamppost every 15 feet.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by beautyfromashes »

DaveKCMO wrote:sure, but even a pricey streetscape is $1 million per mile. streetcar is $62 million per mile (although half would come from feds).
Ok, and it's 3 miles from Union Station to the Plaza. So, with the federal subsidy, we need $93M?
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by DaveKCMO »

you could draw a TDD just around main street to UMKC and pay to build that with 50% match. the other two expansions were 95% subsidized by downtown, westport, plaza, and stadiums. somehow they didn't think that was a good deal.
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by kboish »

DaveKCMO wrote:you could draw a TDD just around main street to UMKC and pay to build that with 50% match. the other two expansions were 95% subsidized by downtown, westport, plaza, and stadiums. somehow they didn't think that was a good deal.
I don't think anyone was made aware of this. The 'other sides' PR argument of - this is being paid for on the back of poor people won out
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by beautyfromashes »

I'd make a TDD around the businesses on Main St, include the Plaza and a transportation fee added to UMKC students tuition.
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by flyingember »

I was there's actually other potential sweeteners on the table that could be explored

like having the city council pass an ordinance that fares on any corridor west of Troost will remain free to ride the line as local service as long as the terminus is east of a certain street.

so when the line gets long, residents pay. and if you cross a certain point, they need to pay a fare
but to use it to get to/from the store they don't pay anything extra
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by mykn »

flyingember wrote:I was there's actually other potential sweeteners on the table that could be explored

like having the city council pass an ordinance that fares on any corridor west of Troost will remain free to ride the line as local service as long as the terminus is east of a certain street.

so when the line gets long, residents pay. and if you cross a certain point, they need to pay a fare
but to use it to get to/from the store they don't pay anything extra
If I remember right, one of the reasons for not collecting fairs was to make stops quick and because collecting the fair itself wouldn't make a ton of money. A system like this might complicate things further.

I like where you're going though. In my (rather uneducated) opinion, the city should have made a huge push from the beginning about trying to bring development to the East side. We saw some movement from the city in that direction a week or two to go, but that should have happened from the beginning. Now without the streetcar, I hope the city doesn't drop any of those promises and further alienate anyone.
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by loftguy »

mykn wrote:
flyingember wrote:I was there's actually other potential sweeteners on the table that could be explored

like having the city council pass an ordinance that fares on any corridor west of Troost will remain free to ride the line as local service as long as the terminus is east of a certain street.

so when the line gets long, residents pay. and if you cross a certain point, they need to pay a fare
but to use it to get to/from the store they don't pay anything extra
If I remember right, one of the reasons for not collecting fairs was to make stops quick and because collecting the fair itself wouldn't make a ton of money. A system like this might complicate things further.

I like where you're going though. In my (rather uneducated) opinion, the city should have made a huge push from the beginning about trying to bring development to the East side. We saw some movement from the city in that direction a week or two to go, but that should have happened from the beginning. Now without the streetcar, I hope the city doesn't drop any of those promises and further alienate anyone.
Ahem....the streetcar WAS the push to bring development east.

What other 'promises' are you referencing?

I'm afraid this is a case of self alienation.
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by flyingember »

mykn wrote:
flyingember wrote:I was there's actually other potential sweeteners on the table that could be explored

like having the city council pass an ordinance that fares on any corridor west of Troost will remain free to ride the line as local service as long as the terminus is east of a certain street.

so when the line gets long, residents pay. and if you cross a certain point, they need to pay a fare
but to use it to get to/from the store they don't pay anything extra
If I remember right, one of the reasons for not collecting fairs was to make stops quick and because collecting the fair itself wouldn't make a ton of money. A system like this might complicate things further.
once you start collecting fares it's quite simple. the idea is based around downtown beginning to accept fares

you just don't have people enforcing it until the first stop inbound on each line.
outbound you stop enforcing past that point.

it just takes picking a logical gap to start at. I would be most inclined to throw a bone to west of troost, but it could be flexible. like maybe Lindwood you start at Main. Once you turn/transter onto the Main St line you have to pay a fare. if you get off at Home Depot to go shopping it's free
mykn

Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by mykn »

loftguy wrote:
mykn wrote:
flyingember wrote:I was there's actually other potential sweeteners on the table that could be explored

like having the city council pass an ordinance that fares on any corridor west of Troost will remain free to ride the line as local service as long as the terminus is east of a certain street.

so when the line gets long, residents pay. and if you cross a certain point, they need to pay a fare
but to use it to get to/from the store they don't pay anything extra
If I remember right, one of the reasons for not collecting fairs was to make stops quick and because collecting the fair itself wouldn't make a ton of money. A system like this might complicate things further.

I like where you're going though. In my (rather uneducated) opinion, the city should have made a huge push from the beginning about trying to bring development to the East side. We saw some movement from the city in that direction a week or two to go, but that should have happened from the beginning. Now without the streetcar, I hope the city doesn't drop any of those promises and further alienate anyone.
Ahem....the streetcar WAS the push to bring development east.

What other 'promises' are you referencing?

I'm afraid this is a case of self alienation.
Ha, oh I know!

I was referring to this:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/governme ... 29152.html
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by chingon »

To answer my own question:


It passed along the Main Street corridor.

That makes me feel both better (about the future of the real city) and worse, about the future of the east side and northeast, and the gullibility of that voting block. They got bamboozled.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by beautyfromashes »

chingon wrote:To answer my own question:

It passed along the Main Street corridor.

That makes me feel both better (about the future of the real city) and worse, about the future of the east side and northeast, and the gullibility of that voting block. They got bamboozled.
Why are we bending over backwards to help them keep two council districts if they don't want to support something that will make a marked advancement in the city? Once the Northland gets a third district, we should cut the south area into three: north, central, south.
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by flyingember »

beautyfromashes wrote:
chingon wrote:To answer my own question:

It passed along the Main Street corridor.

That makes me feel both better (about the future of the real city) and worse, about the future of the east side and northeast, and the gullibility of that voting block. They got bamboozled.
Why are we bending over backwards to help them keep two council districts if they don't want to support something that will make a marked advancement in the city? Once the Northland gets a third district, we should cut the south area into three: north, central, south.
the third district is highly dependent on how quickly Second Creek spins up. It's the wildcard in KC politics.
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by flyingember »

reviewing the numbers first thing that stands out

14259 votes
5657 vs 8602

in person: 5208 vs 8181 38.9% to 61.1%
absentee 449 vs 412 51.61 to 48.39

so people making an effort to vote absentee were largely split.
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by flyingember »

ward 12, precinct 9, at the very end of the Indep Ave line, voted 60% for the system.

it was the best east side result. nothing else was over 50%

the worst was near the VA hopital. 0 to 2
and van brunt and i70 0 to 5
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by flyingember »

ward
1: 61.4
2: 39.6
3: 31.2
4: 55.1
5: 55.4
6: 40.8
7: 29.7
11: 48.1
12 34.3
13: 26.4
14: 24.2
15: 24.2
16: 27.0
17: 19.6


turnout order with over 1000 voters
5,4,1,7,3,15,14
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by flyingember »

really sad vote fact

the *entire* west of Troost results were countered by just three wards on the east side. that left the rest to rack up the votes against

downtown was 100% countered by ward 3

the west plaza and south plaza areas voted against the line with only 37.8% yes
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Re: Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

Post by chaglang »

Ward 11 (Indy Ave) is probably worth a second look. It lost by 21 votes out of 835.
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