Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014

[longviewmo]

36 is pretty much 4 lanes and divided across the state, and 50's heading the same way.

[flyingember]

It probably won't mean much in the end, but the very first set of votes reports has some interesting numbers (kctv site)

70% right to farm
79% bear arms
80% privacy
56% this tax

301 people voted on the first 3. 306 on this tax

This shows that solid conservative doesn't mean much for the road tax choice and some small amount of people are skipping the other items

[flyingember]

20% of vote, 43-57

rural vs urban isn't a clear yes vs no

[GRID]

MoDot is going to be in some serious trouble very soon. They just can not seem to get any public support to get some funding.

What has happened to Missouri? It's turning into a poor state and is reminding me more of places like AL and MS every year. Just this past year, I watched Maryland and Virginia pass huge multi billion dollar transportation packages while Missouri just keeps saying no. This has a huge impact on the economy and sends matching federal money to other states. One of the largest state road systems combined with one of the lowest gas taxes (and no other source of revenue) plus huge amounts of bond debt = an impending disaster.

Same with the streetcar vote. All of this is just so disheartening. I hope KCMO finds a way, any way, whatever it takes to get the streetcar extended to the Plaza and soon. I can't believe how long it takes to do things and get public support for infrastructure in KC. (airport, roads, transit, convention hotel, trails etc), but every company in town can get a free tax payer funded building in the location of their choice with no questions asked by the pubic.

I sometimes wonder if the majority of people in KC (and Missouri) will ever have a progressive and urban attitude and stop being such tightwads. Nearly 10% sales tax and little to show for it except corporate welfare.

End of rant. Sorry, just needed to vent a little.

[KCPowercat]

MoDot plan was horrible with a horrible funding mechanism. We're the multi billion plans with sales tax only?

[chingon]

MoDot is going to be in some serious trouble very soon. They just can not seem to get any public support to get some funding.

What has happened to Missouri? It's turning into a poor state and is reminding me more of places like AL and MS every year. Just this past year, I watched Maryland and Virginia pass huge multi billion dollar transportation packages while Missouri just keeps saying no. This has a huge impact on the economy and sends matching federal money to other states. One of the largest state road systems combined with one of the lowest gas taxes (and no other source of revenue) plus huge amounts of bond debt = an impending disaster.

Same with the streetcar vote. All of this is just so disheartening. I hope KCMO finds a way, any way, whatever it takes to get the streetcar extended to the Plaza and soon. I can't believe how long it takes to do things and get public support for infrastructure in KC. (airport, roads, transit, convention hotel, trails etc), but every company in town can get a free tax payer funded building in the location of their choice with no questions asked by the pubic.

I sometimes wonder if the majority of people in KC (and Missouri) will ever have a progressive and urban attitude and stop being such tightwads. Nearly 10% sales tax and little to show for it except corporate welfare.

End of rant. Sorry, just needed to vent a little.

Seems pretty spot on.

[GRID]

MoDot plan was horrible with a horrible funding mechanism. We're the multi billion plans with sales tax only?

Yea, states are being forced to find other sources of revenue because the gas tax is not getting it done anymore with more efficient cars, electric cars etc. Missouri is already handicapped with a very low gas tax, especially for the size of their system.

Something will have to give. I have always said that MO should walk away from most of the secondary roads they maintain and let counties and cities take them over or force them too. There is no way MoDot can keep going they way they are going. I actually thought they were screwed many years ago, but they took a chance and went into huge debt to try to win over the public for future financing. Whether this plan was great or not, they still have little support. I don't think things will be good for MO roads in the next decade and much of the system is still some of the oldest in the country that has not been replaced by now (including much of the MO side of KC).

[pash]

.

[KCPowercat]

MoDot plan was horrible with a horrible funding mechanism. We're the multi billion plans with sales tax only?

Yea, states are being forced to find other sources of revenue because the gas tax is not getting it done anymore with more efficient cars, electric cars etc. Missouri is already handicapped with a very low gas tax, especially for the size of their system.

Something will have to give. I have always said that MO should walk away from most of the secondary roads they maintain and let counties and cities take them over or force them too. There is no way MoDot can keep going they way they are going. I actually thought they were screwed many years ago, but they took a chance and went into huge debt to try to win over the public for future financing. Whether this plan was great or not, they still have little support. I don't think things will be good for MO roads in the next decade and much of the system is still some of the oldest in the country that has not been replaced by now (including much of the MO side of KC).

Quick Google search showed Maryland and Virginia plans both used gas tax increases.... Virginia also added third cent sales tax. Are these the plans you referred to? This differs quite a bit from only a sales tax that was voted on today in Missouri.

[FangKC]

This is only my assessment, but I think the transportation tax failed for these reasons:

Funded by increase in sales tax. Hurts older and poorer residents more, who may not have a car or drive as much on highways. I think there is a low tolerance for increases in sales taxes, because residents are seeing more and more proposals put forth that are financed by increases in sales taxes.

The proposed tax doesn't collect revenue from trucks moving across the state, which do the most damage to roads. I think many residents saw this an unfair. Also doesn't collect any revenue from out-of-state travelers using state roads.

Expanding I-70 to six lanes across the state. I think this was too ambitious, and the the majority of voters don't feel it's necessary.

In the future, I think the only way of passing a transportation measure, is to finance it with an increase in the gas tax, and only framing it as maintenance of existing roads and bridges, and not building more capacity.

[GRID]

Correction. I think VA raised the sales tax while MD raised the gas and sales tax last year or this year, not totally sure. The taxes will also fund major transit projects. In MD, the new transportation tax will fund the purple and red light rail lines, about 3 billion dollars for those two projects alone.

I do know that the sales tax in MD including all local sales taxes etc is only 6% and that funds a whole lot of stuff (transit, parks etc). Very little corporate welfare here either.

It's ridiculous that sales taxes in metro KC are nearing and could pass 10%. KCMO sure knows how to fund its fire department though. KCMO FD has to be one of the best funded and highest paying fire districts in the country. People need to think more about what they are voting for. Just because its "public safety" doesn't mean any tax should be rubber stamped at the polls. Corporate welfare is out of control and developers get anything they want to construct sprawl. At the same time, it's near impossible to pass taxes for basic infrastructure and urban investment.

[GRID]

MoDot plan was horrible with a horrible funding mechanism. We're the multi billion plans with sales tax only?

Yea, states are being forced to find other sources of revenue because the gas tax is not getting it done anymore with more efficient cars, electric cars etc. Missouri is already handicapped with a very low gas tax, especially for the size of their system.

Something will have to give. I have always said that MO should walk away from most of the secondary roads they maintain and let counties and cities take them over or force them too. There is no way MoDot can keep going they way they are going. I actually thought they were screwed many years ago, but they took a chance and went into huge debt to try to win over the public for future financing. Whether this plan was great or not, they still have little support. I don't think things will be good for MO roads in the next decade and much of the system is still some of the oldest in the country that has not been replaced by now (including much of the MO side of KC).

Quick Google search showed Maryland and Virginia plans both used gas tax increases.... Virginia also added third cent sales tax. Are these the plans you referred to? This differs quite a bit from only a sales tax that was voted on today in Missouri.

I posted a correction. I'm not going to dig into the details of it. I know MD and VA did pass major packages and using various revenue streams, sales taxes being one of them.

But what I don't recall is a vote. So maybe they can just pass that kind of stuff at the state level without a vote? I honestly don't know. It's hard to follow everything around here.

What I do know is they passed and there have been very little opposition to it. I also know that MoDot knows that they will never get a vote for a gas tax increase. Every time they try, it goes down in flames and I don't think they even want to try anymore. They will probably eventually figure out some way to increase their revenue, but these delays and really hurt the state. The state will probably have to let roads start to crumble again to get the support it needs.

I would agree though that a sales only tax is a bad plan.

[FangKC]

MoDot plan was horrible with a horrible funding mechanism. We're the multi billion plans with sales tax only?

I have always said that MO should walk away from most of the secondary roads they maintain and let counties and cities take them over or force them too. There is no way MoDot can keep going they way they are going.

The only problem with turning state roads over to counties is that many counties in Missouri are cash poor already, and would be in worse shape to maintain the highways than the state would be.

Many rural counties have trouble just keeping gravel roads maintained.

With the size of the state's road network, it's the people living in the cities who are subsidizing state roads, and trucks and travelers moving through the state who are buying gasoline.

In fact, with shrinking populations in rural counties, I would argue that Missouri has too many counties, and there should be some consolidation of them.

It's often rural Missourians who vote against these measures in high percentages, when they benefit from them the most. They could never pay for the highways themselves without the non-rural revenue stream.

[FangKC]

At the same time, it's near impossible to pass taxes for basic infrastructure and urban investment.

It's true even on the federal level. No one appears to want to pay for anything any longer. Congress doesn't seem to be able to pass any infastructure spending.

I agree with the notion that it will only get worse. Our national infastructure will just have to get to dangerous levels before people will be willing to pay for anything--even though our entire economy depends on infastructure.

[GRID]

At the same time, it's near impossible to pass taxes for basic infrastructure and urban investment.

It's true even on the federal level. No one appears to want to pay for anything any longer. Congress doesn't seem to be able to pass any infastructure spending.

I agree with the notion that it will only get worse. Our national infastructure will just have to get to dangerous levels before people will be willing to pay for anything--even though our entire economy depends on infastructure.

Yep. Pretty sad how far the United States has fallen behind in basic urban transportation infrastructure. Although KC should be more in line with other growing cities west of the Mississippi and it's just so far behind most cities out west that are investing in new urban transit etc.

[warwickland]

At the same time, it's near impossible to pass taxes for basic infrastructure and urban investment.

It's true even on the federal level. No one appears to want to pay for anything any longer. Congress doesn't seem to be able to pass any infastructure spending.

I agree with the notion that it will only get worse. Our national infastructure will just have to get to dangerous levels before people will be willing to pay for anything--even though our entire economy depends on infastructure.

Yep. Pretty sad how far the United States has fallen behind in basic urban transportation infrastructure. Although KC should be more in line with other growing cities west of the Mississippi and it's just so far behind most cities out west that are investing in new urban transit etc.

KC is a midwestern city like Indianapolis with a similar set of challenges (transit, unencumbered sprawl) and advantages (low traffic, plenty of water), looking west is helpful, but not entirely instructive. kc to denver is interstellar space, relatively speaking.

[Eon Blue]

The only problem with turning state roads over to counties is that many counties in Missouri are cash poor already, and would be in worse shape to maintain the highways than the state would be.

Many rural counties have trouble just keeping gravel roads maintained.

With the size of the state's road network, it's the people living in the cities who are subsidizing state roads, and trucks and travelers moving through the state who are buying gasoline.

In fact, with shrinking populations in rural counties, I would argue that Missouri has too many counties, and there should be some consolidation of them.

It's often rural Missourians who vote against these measures in high percentages, when they benefit from them the most. They could never pay for the highways themselves without the non-rural revenue stream.

I don't see how you turn around MoDOT's situation without spinning off the letter roads and some 3-digit state highways. If the counties have trouble maintaining them then they need to raise property taxes or come to terms with the fact that a 10-acre fiefdom for everybody is unrealistic.

In bigger cities, does MoDOT really need to own/maintain as many arterials as they do? Look at St. Louis County for the best example of overcommitment. Then locally, look at Independence. US 24, MO 12, MO 78, I-70, MO-291 and US 40 all traverse the city. Of all those, only I-70 and MO-291 serve a legitimate state-level purpose. US 40 could easily be multiplexed with I-70 the same as it is across most of the state without losing any functionality on that roadway. There needs to be some mechanism to make fringe cities realize the larger ramifications of their unencumbered growth, whether that is building more of their own backbone roadway networks instead of leaving that to the state, or developing some sort of local cost-sharing program with the state for highway expansions that primarily serve commuter traffic.

And trucks simply must pay their way. Fuel taxes must be increased and tolls should be set on I-70 and I-44. If those routes are the most efficient, then the trucks will continue to take them. If not, then they can utilize excess capacity on routes like US 36.

We also often hear the argument of increasing fuel economy decreasing available revenue. Well, then do like any business and adapt. Peg the fuel tax to inflation, explore a VMT tax or higher registration fees, or start focusing on transportation systems that minimize the amount that someone must travel rather than maximizing the amount they can travel. (Thanks, Chuck Marohn!)

If you're concerned about safety, enable people to drive less and make them buckle up when they do drive. Those are two simple ways to reduce roadway casualties.

[smh]

The only problem with turning state roads over to counties is that many counties in Missouri are cash poor already, and would be in worse shape to maintain the highways than the state would be.

Many rural counties have trouble just keeping gravel roads maintained.

With the size of the state's road network, it's the people living in the cities who are subsidizing state roads, and trucks and travelers moving through the state who are buying gasoline.

In fact, with shrinking populations in rural counties, I would argue that Missouri has too many counties, and there should be some consolidation of them.

It's often rural Missourians who vote against these measures in high percentages, when they benefit from them the most. They could never pay for the highways themselves without the non-rural revenue stream.

I don't see how you turn around MoDOT's situation without spinning off the letter roads and some 3-digit state highways. If the counties have trouble maintaining them then they need to raise property taxes or come to terms with the fact that a 10-acre fiefdom for everybody is unrealistic.

In bigger cities, does MoDOT really need to own/maintain as many arterials as they do? Look at St. Louis County for the best example of overcommitment. Then locally, look at Independence. US 24, MO 12, MO 78, I-70, MO-291 and US 40 all traverse the city. Of all those, only I-70 and MO-291 serve a legitimate state-level purpose. US 40 could easily be multiplexed with I-70 the same as it is across most of the state without losing any functionality on that roadway. There needs to be some mechanism to make fringe cities realize the larger ramifications of their unencumbered growth, whether that is building more of their own backbone roadway networks instead of leaving that to the state, or developing some sort of local cost-sharing program with the state for highway expansions that primarily serve commuter traffic.

And trucks simply must pay their way. Fuel taxes must be increased and tolls should be set on I-70 and I-44. If those routes are the most efficient, then the trucks will continue to take them. If not, then they can utilize excess capacity on routes like US 36.

We also often hear the argument of increasing fuel economy decreasing available revenue. Well, then do like any business and adapt. Peg the fuel tax to inflation, explore a VMT tax or higher registration fees, or start focusing on transportation systems that minimize the amount that someone must travel rather than maximizing the amount they can travel. (Thanks, Chuck Marohn!)

If you're concerned about safety, enable people to drive less and make them buckle up when they do drive. Those are two simple ways to reduce roadway casualties.

All of this.

[warwickland]

not to go off topic, but was kcmo asleep for the proposition 5 "guns everywhere" vote? yikes!

[mean]

not to go off topic, but was kcmo asleep for the proposition 5 "guns everywhere" vote? yikes!

I'm a gun owner, shooter, and sometimes-defender of gun rights, and even I voted against that silliness. Implicitly condoning via constitutional amendment the idea that if the feds come for your guns--which isn't happening--that you have the right to shoot them, or that the state should arrest them? Jesus what a stupid idea.