Statewide transportation sales tax coming in 2014

[aknowledgeableperson]

One item to consider on prop 7. From AARP:

The plan is the first in Missouri history to incorporate bicycling, walking, and transit alongside all other transportation projects. Besides bridge and road projects, funding would be available for “complete streets” projects. “Complete Streets” policies ensure that a community’s roads are safe for all users — drivers as well as pedestrians, bicyclists, public transit riders, schoolchildren and older adults.

With more of our members 50 and over living active lifestyles, this may be an important issue for you to consider as you think about your community’s walkability, pedestrian friendliness and transit options. AARP is not taking an official position for or against Amendment 7, however we work with regional leaders to ensure that transit options and “complete streets” concepts are included in any new transportation funding. We urge you learn about this issue and make an educated decision before voting on August 5th.

[chaglang]

I applaud them on their backing of Complete Streets. Unfortunately, MODOT is doing little more than a token inclusion of anything but road projects.

[flyingember]

Time for final thoughts.

I dislike Amendment 1 as a statewide item and the fact that it bans tolls as an option.

Are the local non-highway projects added on enough to overrule this? I'm leaning towards yes for this part but am uncertain.

[DaveKCMO]

Time for final thoughts.

I dislike Amendment 1 as a statewide item and the fact that it bans tolls as an option.

Are the local non-highway projects added on enough to overrule this? I'm leaning towards yes for this part but am uncertain.

amendment 7 (although amendment 1 is also a shit show).

my main reasons for voting yes are the money for KCATA ($65 million, for which there are no other sources available) and acquiring the rock island ROW for future trail/transit use.

streetcar will be fine without it, but that money comes to the city sooner and thus would help reduce financing costs. it also looks better to the feds to have another funding partner at the table.

[KCPowercat]

I'm leaning towards yes on this thing but still don't feel great about it.

[lock+load]

No

[KCPowercat]

No

What is your reasoning? I'm yes due to what Dave has laid out and to have statewide tax fund transit is pretty sweet.

[lock+load]

No

What is your reasoning? I'm yes due to what Dave has laid out and to have statewide tax fund transit is pretty sweet.

The tax is unfair. Trucks pay zero, and they are a major user and abuser of roads.

It would be great to be able to fund all these side projects but first and foremost this tax is about roads, and the average Missourian is carrying the load for the big businesses that put all the 18-wheelers on the highways.

A sales tax for the transit projects coupled with an increased gas tax and/or I-70 tolls would be a much better option. It's not like this is a one time shot. Roads and bridges will still need repaired.

It's almost like the transit and streetcar money is a bribe to get more on board with a bad plan.

[mean]

I agree tolls would be a better funding option.

I also think tolls would go down in flames.

[KCPowercat]

I agree tolls would be a better funding option.

I also think tolls would go down in flames.

I agree it's a much better option...and I get the feeling it would fail too but I can't figure out why......why do people hate tolls?

[KCPowercat]

No

What is your reasoning? I'm yes due to what Dave has laid out and to have statewide tax fund transit is pretty sweet.

The tax is unfair. Trucks pay zero, and they are a major user and abuser of roads.

It would be great to be able to fund all these side projects but first and foremost this tax is about roads, and the average Missourian is carrying the load for the big businesses that put all the 18-wheelers on the highways.

A sales tax for the transit projects coupled with an increased gas tax and/or I-70 tolls would be a much better option. It's not like this is a one time shot. Roads and bridges will still need repaired.

It's almost like the transit and streetcar money is a bribe to get more on board with a bad plan.

Thanks for the reply....those are the exact same reasons I'm hesitant.

[flyingember]

I agree it's a much better option...and I get the feeling it would fail too but I can't figure out why......why do people hate tolls?

it's fees that favor trucking that makes people dislike tolls

kdot costs-
a car to go from Oklahoma to KC is $12
A 18-wheel truck is $31.50

a car that weighs 3000 pounds vs a truck that can weight 80,000 pounds obviously does so much different amounts of damage

that car it's a 100% loss for the driver
the toll is a business expense for most trucking companies. they account for the tolls in the cost of the goods they're selling.

[lock+load]

Why does everyone assume tolls or an increased gas tax are not viable? It's because the trucking industry lobbyists are planting that seed and the media is spreading it. Let's put all three options on the same ballot and see which wins.

[KCPowercat]

I agree it's a much better option...and I get the feeling it would fail too but I can't figure out why......why do people hate tolls?

it's fees that favor trucking that makes people dislike tolls

kdot costs-
a car to go from Oklahoma to KC is $12
A 18-wheel truck is $31.50

a car that weighs 3000 pounds vs a truck that can weight 80,000 pounds obviously does so much different amounts of damage

that car it's a 100% loss for the driver
the toll is a business expense for most trucking companies. they account for the tolls in the cost of the goods they're selling.

I'm not following what you are saying.

[KCPowercat]

Why does everyone assume tolls or an increased gas tax are not viable? It's because the trucking industry lobbyists are planting that seed and the media is spreading it. Let's put all three options on the same ballot and see which wins.

Gas tax is becoming less viable due to decreasing miles driven.....I think a toll is very viable but it's not the trucking lobbyists making me think it's not a popular option with middle missouri.

[longviewmo]

Excluding Jackson, St. Charles, and St. Louis counties, there are 42 exits on I-70 in Missouri. The entirety of the Kansas turnpike, which is roughly the same length, only has 22 interchanges + 2 terminal tollbooths. Missouri's either going to have to spend more to construct toll plazas at these interchanges or eliminate some of them, which would be very unpopular after 40+ years of use.

[KCPowercat]

Excluding Jackson, St. Charles, and St. Louis counties, there are 42 exits on I-70 in Missouri. The entirety of the Kansas turnpike, which is roughly the same length, only has 22 interchanges + 2 terminal tollbooths. Missouri's either going to have to spend more to construct toll plazas at these interchanges or eliminate some of them, which would be very unpopular after 40+ years of use.

Modern toll systems don't work like Kansas does. Check out some of Dallas new ones and Miami. No booths. No tickets. Cameras bill drivers without electronic tag system

[NDTeve]

trucks would use 36 and 50 to avoid tolls. Would clear up traffic on I70 but not raise the money.

[lock+load]

trucks would use 36 and 50 to avoid tolls. Would clear up traffic on I70 but not raise the money.

They might for a while, but the congestion and increased travel time on those routes are going to make paying the toll the best option over time.

[flyingember]

trucks would use 36 and 50 to avoid tolls. Would clear up traffic on I70 but not raise the money.

They might for a while, but the congestion and increased travel time on those routes are going to make paying the toll the best option over time.

guess what the shortest Chicago to KC route is per google. I-55 to I-72/US 36 to I-35. it's 25 miles shorter. a truck going at most 65mph isn't going to see a real difference.

now, there is a reason you won't see tons of trucks on US 36 or 50, and it's truck-friendly amenities. there's WAY more on I-70 today.