Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

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GRID
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by GRID » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:32 pm

It would be really nice to have a dedicated right of way, but traffic volumes on Main Street are pretty low. Even during peak times, traffic rarely builds up or queues anywhere along Main Street. Also, there are not really any major venues that would cause major congestion along Main like you have inside the loop when things are going on downtown.

It's not ideal to share lanes with traffic, but I doubt it would ever be built if it involved taking away street parking. That would be nearly impossible to overcome politically. (asking business owners to give up parking and pay for the streetcar). The traffic should be able to get around the streetcars and they should be about as quick as streetcars are in dedicated lanes so long as they truly give them signal priority.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by WoodDraw » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:02 pm

P.s. my name's Andrew. I don't want to be an anonymous douche. I've met a few of you that know that. The rest I'll be happy to buy a beer for when we meet.

I don't want to speak in tautologies, but transit has to work. For the cost, what are you getting in return? Dave doesn't need to be lectured on this, or anyone here. But I think it's helpful to constantly red team proposals and see what's actually being accomplished.

With that, I'll step from my soapbox.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by GRID » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:08 pm

Are they seriously considering running center lane? That would be much better if they did that because you would have far less opportunity for parked cars, delivery vehicles etc blocking and delaying the streetcars. It would also be easier to convert portions of it to dedicated right of way in the future not to mention it would slow traffic down and introduce a lot more pedestrian crossing activity making main street more ped friendly.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by KCPowercat » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:17 pm

yes.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:27 am

Surprised no one picked up on this (from what I can tell). May not have affected round #2 but who knows about the future.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/clim ... ansit.html

"NASHVILLE, Tenn. — A team of political activists huddled at a Hardee’s one rainy Saturday, wolfing down a breakfast of biscuits and gravy. Then they descended on Antioch, a quiet Nashville suburb, armed with iPads full of voter data and a fiery script.
The group, the local chapter for Americans for Prosperity, which is financed by the oil billionaires Charles G. and David H. Koch to advance conservative causes, fanned out and began strategically knocking on doors. Their targets: voters most likely to oppose a local plan to build light-rail trains, a traffic-easing tunnel and new bus routes.
“Do you agree that raising the sales tax to the highest rate in the nation must be stopped?” Samuel Nienow, one of the organizers, asked a startled man who answered the door at his ranch-style home in March. “Can we count on you to vote ‘no’ on the transit plan?”
In cities and counties across the country — including Little Rock, Ark.; Phoenix, Ariz.; southeast Michigan; central Utah; and here in Tennessee — the Koch brothers are fueling a fight against public transit, an offshoot of their longstanding national crusade for lower taxes and smaller government.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by normalthings » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:45 am

I have never understood how you can support self governance and be against outside control , then attack 1.local groups trying to better their areas and 2. Local groups in locations far from you.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:49 am

normalthings wrote:I have never understood how you can support self governance and be against outside control , then attack 1.local groups trying to better their areas and 2. Local groups in locations far from you.
I do. They're egotistical hypocrites interested in playing games with the lives of others in order to further their own self-interests under the guide of being for the public interest.

The Smart KC group is like this. They say they want improved busses instead of a train but don't actually do anything to support improved busses.
Last edited by flyingember on Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by dnweava » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:50 am

KCPowercat wrote:
Because as we sit right now, you will never get the community support behind "taking away lanes and parking" at this point and time. You won't get community support if you take away their ability to turn left on Main.
Why is left hand turns an issue? Don't many intersections on Main already restrict left turns during rush hour?


normalthings wrote:1. A dedicated center lane would be ideal. If support isn’t there, then let’s build a mixed traffic center lane system and then dedicate the lanes later.
GRID wrote:Are they seriously considering running center lane? That would be much better if they did that because you would have far less opportunity for parked cars, delivery vehicles etc blocking and delaying the streetcars. It would also be easier to convert portions of it to dedicated right of way in the future not to mention it would slow traffic down and introduce a lot more pedestrian crossing activity making main street more ped friendly.
IF the center lane option is designed in a way it can be made dedicated in the future, then we really should, hands down, go with that option. If we can get it built as mixed traffic to avoid protests or whatever and babystep this thing into a dedicated lane then I will support that. Once people start using the streetcar then maybe less parking on Main would be needed and they can eventually remove those spots, or make the outside parking lane a traffic lane during rush hour, and traffic from 4-6pm or whatever.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:58 am

dnweava wrote:
Why is left hand turns an issue? Don't many intersections on Main already restrict left turns during rush hour?
Three intersections only and not both directions necessarily

43rd NB is all day- 7am to 6pm M-F
40th NB is 7-9 and 4-6, SB is 4-6 M-F
Westport Rd NB is 7-9, 4-6 M-F

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by dnweava » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:59 am

If we go with the center lane option, I would really like them to consider the design of the rails to be different than downtown that has the solid concrete slab between the rails. Design it so you layer of asphalt between the rails above the concrete substructure that can be easily pulled out so they can lay down grass if they ever make it a streetcar dedicated lane like they do in europe. I've been to a couple cities where they do this and it looks cool.

Image

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by KCPowercat » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:02 am

dnweava wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:
Because as we sit right now, you will never get the community support behind "taking away lanes and parking" at this point and time. You won't get community support if you take away their ability to turn left on Main.
Why is left hand turns an issue? Don't many intersections on Main already restrict left turns during rush hour?
.
Yes some do....but a dedicated lane would take them away forever....all of them.

I don't think it's a big deal, I'm just describing why the perfect situation is not attainable right now.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by kboish » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:13 am

Is it really not possible to maintain some sort of left turn during off peak hours if we had a center running lane?

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by KCPowercat » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:27 am

It definitely is (and it's shown in the maps)...I was talking about a dedicated lane sitch.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by taxi » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:52 am

dnweava wrote:If we go with the center lane option, I would really like them to consider the design of the rails to be different than downtown that has the solid concrete slab between the rails. Design it so you layer of asphalt between the rails above the concrete substructure that can be easily pulled out so they can lay down grass if they ever make it a streetcar dedicated lane like they do in europe. I've been to a couple cities where they do this and it looks cool.

Image
Now you're talkin. By the time the streetcar is complete, marijuana will probably be legal in MO and we could grow pot in the center lane. Take that, Koch bros!

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by GRID » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:01 am

KCPowercat wrote:yes.
Cool. It would cost a little more, but it would be well worth it in the long run, especially if it were designed to be easily upgraded to dedicated ROW in the future.

Why not restrict parking during peak hours and not allow driving on the track lane during peak hours? That would keep four through lanes open for cars and keep the trains moving while still keeping some parking during off peak times.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by GRID » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:20 am

They could use the same lane use signal control they use for reversible lanes such as these in Silver Spring MD.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9975231 ... 312!8i6656

The parking lane would get a green arrow during peak hours and the streetcar lane would get an X. This would basically give the streetcars a dedicated lane during peak hours.

Just an idea.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by dnweava » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:57 am

Can we not just have a few left hand turns where the right of way is wider, like at Linwood. I mean people can use other streets like Broadway and Gillham, etc. The area doesn't have a shortage of north-south streets and people can adjust their route just like they have to do with Southwest Trafficway. oh no, I have to drive a block over, stop the streetcar project!!!

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by kboish » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:15 pm

It officially passed. Roughly 2500 yes to ~800 No for both questions.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by snigglefritz » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:32 pm


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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:42 pm

dnweava wrote:Can we not just have a few left hand turns where the right of way is wider, like at Linwood. I mean people can use other streets like Broadway and Gillham, etc.
You will just cause traffic issues since everyone will try to turn left here.

Better to just make people use a different street in total to go east or west of Main.

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