Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Transportation topics in KC
User avatar
Critical_Mass
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: Crossroads

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby Critical_Mass » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:47 pm

27th would be great for Liberty Memorial/WWI Museum and Longfellow. Not to mention all of the under-construction, proposed, and potential development along 27th street which could fill out and completely change that area from what it is today.
I'd take 31st over Linwood since Linwood feels more like a stroad, lined w/ fast food restaurants, Home Depot/Costco, Jiffy Lubes, etc.
Maybe a midblock stop halway between 31st and Linwood could work.

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 28390
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby KCPowercat » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:50 pm

I still kinda like the midblock option as well....but if we are going to focus bus lines on one or the other, maybe it's not needed as much.

flyingember
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6588
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby flyingember » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:21 pm

Let's ignore street location and focus on minimizing the walking distance for the most people

Pershing is 24th
3 blocks to 27th
5.5 blocks to Linwood is 32.5th
2.5 blocks to Armour is 35th.
4 blocks to 39th
4 blocks to 43rd
2 blocks to 45th
2 blocks to 47th
4 blocks to 51st

so the largest gap is 27th to Linwood. I can see moving the stop there as having value, even though I think the idea of putting a single center stop halfway between makes sense, like at 31st Terr

Adding a stop would be three stops in 4 blocks.
Downtown at it's tightest is the same spacing from 12th to 16th and it moves quite slow through there.

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4079
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby beautyfromashes » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:29 pm

I like mid-block too. Put it in front of The Russell and Gates. This consolidated stop would be very active and an excellent push for redevelopment of several properties in the area.

User avatar
smh
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2832
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:40 pm
Location: Central Loop

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby smh » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:49 pm

I am pretty enthusiastic about moving the Liberty Memorial stop to 27th. Should be a boon for future development in the Crown Center/Union Hill area. I am ambivalent at this point about 31st v. Linwood, but agree we should do one or the other.

mykn
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:33 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby mykn » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:50 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:I like mid-block too. Put it in front of The Russell and Gates. This consolidated stop would be very active and an excellent push for redevelopment of several properties in the area.


I could get behind this as a member of #TeamLinwood

JBmidtown
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 742
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:31 am

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby JBmidtown » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:51 pm

It would be a shame if one neighborhood’s entitlement hampered the expansion of the streetcar for the whole city. But it would be a very Kansas City thing to have happen.

User avatar
normalthings
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 999
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby normalthings » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:49 am

If dedicated lanes down main are used, is it possible to just lay down some good old gravel and wood or concrete ties instead of poured concrete?
I assume that gravel and ties will be used within the CCROW way.

This would also be super cool
Image

Also on NPR, Gerend noted that lanes, stops, and fares are all up in the air at this point. He also noted that 39th street is the highest east-west bus route in the city. Hopefully, a route from the east side to KU Med on 39th is in our future.

earthling
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4396
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby earthling » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:49 am

Agree that if 31st and Linwood both don't get stops then put streetcar stop in between. Hopefully an express bus (Waldo to Barry Rd via N Oak) is someday overlapped down Main or Broadway (Midtown segement), which can hit the heaviest crosstown bus stops through Midtown/Downtown.

User avatar
rxlexi
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1860
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:30 pm
Location: Columbia MO

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby rxlexi » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:05 am

Also on NPR, Gerend noted that lanes, stops, and fares are all up in the air at this point. He also noted that 39th street is the highest east-west bus route in the city. Hopefully, a route from the east side to KU Med on 39th is in our future.


I don't like hearing that fares are up in the air. KC Streetcar, unique in the U.S., needs to stay free. More important than lane running, transit times, or location of stops IMO.

That feature has helped make a 2 mile starter line a game changer for downtown, rather than a tourist toy, and would even more dramatically impact a longer line connecting downtown to plaza. Streetcar has to be a by-choice alternative to driving, and fare free is the most obvious and easiest to implement place to start IMO.

User avatar
normalthings
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 999
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby normalthings » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:15 am

rxlexi wrote:
Also on NPR, Gerend noted that lanes, stops, and fares are all up in the air at this point. He also noted that 39th street is the highest east-west bus route in the city. Hopefully, a route from the east side to KU Med on 39th is in our future.


I don't like hearing that fares are up in the air. KC Streetcar, unique in the U.S., needs to stay free. More important than lane running, transit times, or location of stops IMO.

That feature has helped make a 2 mile starter line a game changer for downtown, rather than a tourist toy, and would even more dramatically impact a longer line connecting downtown to plaza. Streetcar has to be a by-choice alternative to driving, and fare free is the most obvious and easiest to implement place to start IMO.

While I agree that fare free is ideal, I disagree that it is the most important. The lanes can essentially never changed and stop locations can decide whether this route ever becomes a real transit tool. A Fare, on the other hand, can be taken away once tax revenues are high enough to completely cover the costs. In my opinion, people living and working along the route are the least likely to stop using the streetcar if a fare is implemented.
Realistically, it sounds like a fare would only be implemented if it meant the difference of being able to to build/operate a line to the Plaza or not.

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4079
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby beautyfromashes » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:39 am

It seems it’s been set up to be fully paid and free as long as federal funds are received. If federal funds aren’t received, then the TDD funds don’t arrive either, per the election. Would love to get official word before ballots arrive, but everything I’ve heard says it will be free like DT.

User avatar
taxi
Valencia Place
Valencia Place
Posts: 1549
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:32 am
Location: North End
Contact:

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby taxi » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:49 am

Freedom isn't free.

chingon
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3393
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:47 pm
Location: South Plaza

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby chingon » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:38 am

JBmidtown wrote:. But it would be a very Kansas City thing to have happen.


Oh, bullshit. This is the way it goes everywhere. The only thing that’s “very Kansas City” is believing every hiccup and problem is somehow unique to Kansas City.

cubsmike33
Parking Garage
Parking Garage
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby cubsmike33 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:00 pm

flyingember wrote:Let's ignore street location and focus on minimizing the walking distance for the most people

Pershing is 24th
3 blocks to 27th
5.5 blocks to Linwood is 32.5th
2.5 blocks to Armour is 35th.
4 blocks to 39th
4 blocks to 43rd
2 blocks to 45th
2 blocks to 47th
4 blocks to 51st

so the largest gap is 27th to Linwood. I can see moving the stop there as having value, even though I think the idea of putting a single center stop halfway between makes sense, like at 31st Terr

Adding a stop would be three stops in 4 blocks.
Downtown at it's tightest is the same spacing from 12th to 16th and it moves quite slow through there.


Pershing to 27th - 0.4 miles
27th to Linwood - 0.7 miles
Linwood to Armour - 0.3 miles
Armour to 39th - 0.5 miles
39th to 43rd - 0.5 Miles
43rd to 45th - 0.3 miles
45th to 47th - 0.3 miles
47th to 51st - 0.5 miles

Does one of these seem out of pattern to you? Because it sure does to me, looks like we have made a conscious choice to exclude a predominant urban neighborhood along the corridor. PS don't get upset with Union Hill folks for voicing their opinions on something they may directly pay for, seems foolish.

One of the many proposed alternatives from the Union Hill Neighborhood Association:

Pershing to 27th - 0.4 miles
27th to 30th - 0.4 miles
30th to Linwood - 0.3 miles
Linwood to Armour - 0.3 miles
Armour to 39th - 0.5 miles
39th to 43rd - 0.5 Miles
43rd to 45th - 0.3 miles
45th to 47th - 0.3 miles
47th to 51st - 0.5 miles

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 28390
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:18 pm

I'm quite sure nobody is making a decision to exclude a "prominent urban neighborhood"....come on.

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4079
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby beautyfromashes » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:18 pm

I understand the desire for distances, but you can’t measure from the middle of one street to the next. If 27th St stop is on the south side of the block and the Linwood one is on the north side (most likely for both) it would probably be .5 miles, similar to the others.

cubsmike33
Parking Garage
Parking Garage
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby cubsmike33 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:50 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:I understand the desire for distances, but you can’t measure from the middle of one street to the next. If 27th St stop is on the south side of the block and the Linwood one is on the north side (most likely for both) it would probably be .5 miles, similar to the others.


Except for we use the same logic for all of the stops therefore some of the other stops may be 0.4 miles or 0.2 miles between 43rd and 47th street.

cubsmike33
Parking Garage
Parking Garage
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:37 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby cubsmike33 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:28 pm

KCPowercat wrote:I'm quite sure nobody is making a decision to exclude a "prominent urban neighborhood"....come on.


Okay may have been embellishing there, but Union Hill has accepted density like few midtown neighborhoods have and we've encouraged that type of future development by leaving them on an island where we remove the 31 bus and don't offer them a reasonable streetcar stop, makes sense /sarcasm

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4079
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby beautyfromashes » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:32 pm

cubsmike33 wrote:Except for we use the same logic for all of the stops therefore some of the other stops may be 0.4 miles or 0.2 miles between 43rd and 47th street.


I assume they will try to move stops closer to 31st since that is the largest gap, shaving .1 Mile on each side. Thus, will likely be something like:

Pershing to (S) 27th - 0.5 miles
27th to (N) Linwood - 0.5 miles
Linwood to Armour - 0.4 miles


Return to “Kansas City Transportation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mykn and 5 guests