Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

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scooterj
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby scooterj » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:53 am

I found permits listed for both of the encroaching driveways, the encroaching home addition, and at least two of the encroaching garages/outbuildings.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby im2kull » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:15 pm

scooterj wrote:I found permits listed for both of the encroaching driveways, the encroaching home addition, and at least two of the encroaching garages/outbuildings.


So who approved them? Doesn't make them the least bit legal. Just makes it that much more of an "Egg on your face" moment for the city. This is ridiculous.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby flyingember » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:37 pm

im2kull wrote:
scooterj wrote:I found permits listed for both of the encroaching driveways, the encroaching home addition, and at least two of the encroaching garages/outbuildings.


So who approved them? Doesn't make them the least bit legal. Just makes it that much more of an "Egg on your face" moment for the city. This is ridiculous.

It’s the contractor who submits the permit’s job to make sure things are legit and the city’s to check.

I doubt permitting was staffed better 20 years ago, probably worse.

This is a weird case without having another home’s yard behind the house to keep people honest

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:08 am

What about the parking lot for Sutherland's? That is on the ROW. Yes, the ATA could have granted easements to the so-called offending parties, less area the ATA would have to maintain.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby pash » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:20 pm

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Last edited by pash on Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby DaveKCMO » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:32 pm

pash wrote:There are numerous parking lots on the ATA's right-of-way. There is no such thing as an easement that does what you imagine; presumably the ATA leases the parking lots to the adjacent businesses.


this is the exact arrangement: space for surface parking is leased to adjacent businesses and that revenue is used to fund trail maintenance. unfortunately, this gives people the impression the right-of-way is narrower than 100 feet (and, thus, could seemingly not support both trail and transitway at the same time).

Yes, it's possible that the ATA and Sherry DeJanes entered into a contract that allowed her to construct and use half of a garage, a shed, and a garden on the ATA's land, and similarly for the lesser encroachments—err, technically possible contractually permitted uses of the ATA's land—by her neighbors. I'll let you decide for yourself how likely that might be.

(DeJanes's garage, by the way, seems to have been built in 1996. The extended fence line, and shed and garden, are much more recent.)


it's possible, but that's not what happened. the lawsuit was filed because she has no claim to the right-of-way, even if the city approved a permit.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby pash » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:36 pm

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Last edited by pash on Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby pash » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:46 pm

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Last edited by pash on Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby kboish » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:50 pm

pash wrote:
DaveKCMO wrote:the lawsuit was filed because she has no claim to the right-of-way, even if the city approved a permit.

What lawsuit? DeJanes's lawsuit to stop the streetcar's expansion? Or did somebody finally file a lawsuit about DeJane's use of the ATA's land that I missed?


From the "Streetcar Opposition" thread:
DaveKCMO wrote:relevant:

Case #1716-CV02051

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/base/welcome.do


Hint: ATA is suing DeJanes

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby pash » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:35 pm

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Last edited by pash on Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby KCPowercat » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:40 pm

Any media story would take the angle of public transit freedom fighter dejanes harassed by big mean transit organization over minor land not in use.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby DaveKCMO » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:44 pm

yeah, i'm pretty much with KCP on this one. the fact that the lawsuit has been filed is enough for me.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby pash » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:58 pm

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby KCPowercat » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:19 pm

I'd prefer she doesn't get any press that might put her in a positive light

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:29 pm

pash wrote:There are numerous parking lots on the ATA's right-of-way. There is no such thing as an easement that does what you imagine; presumably the ATA leases the parking lots to the adjacent businesses.

Yes, it's possible that the ATA and Sherry DeJanes entered into a contract that allowed her to construct and use half of a garage, a shed, and a garden on the ATA's land, and similarly for the lesser encroachments—err, technically possible contractually permitted uses of the ATA's land—by her neighbors. I'll let you decide for yourself how likely that might be.

(DeJanes's garage, by the way, seems to have been built in 1996. The extended fence line, and shed and garden, are much more recent.)


Sorry if my usage of "easement" offended you. Easements can be conveyed by either deed or by contract. Look it up. Easement is a broad word used to describe a right to use property by the non-owner of the property by the owner of the property.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby pash » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:41 pm

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Last edited by pash on Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:56 pm

pash wrote:Easements provide rights for a specific and limited use of land by someone other than the owner. When a non-owner uses land in a way that excludes the owner entirely from using it himself—such as by fencing it in or building a garage on it—that's called "possession" or "tenancy". Easements do not provide possession or tenancy. Yes, the ATA could otherwise have granted permission to DeJanes and others to build fences, sheds, garages, and whatnot on its property; such permission typically comes in the form of a lease or rental agreement.

Now, some of us happen to know that the ATA did not lease its land to DeJanes and her neighbors. Such a situation is called "encroachment" or "hostile possession". In some circumstances, when somebody possesses your land without permission, their continued obvious use of the land without your permission can lead to a claim of "adverse possession", which can result in the user obtaining legal title at your expense. That may be what DeJanes hopes to accomplish here, but in most jurisdictions claims of adverse possession cannot be brought against public land, so I imagine the ATA's property is protected in this case—though I don't know specifically what Missouri law says.


Easements describe the use of land by someone who does not own that land but has permission by the owner to use that land. You did not like my usage of the word easement. And yes that easement granted may be a fence or a garage, it is whatever the two agree to. I can grant an easement to an entity to build a building on my land for a period of 99 years if I want to, happens quite a bit. I can also grant an easement to a neighboring farmer which that farmer can fence away from my other land. And with regards to utility easements I can still use the land, even build a fence on it, and my kids can play on it. I just may not be able to build a lasting structure on it.

And I do know about encroachments and hostile possession BTW. My original post only commented on the possible granting usage to the parties by the ATA. That is all.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby pash » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:34 pm

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Last edited by pash on Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby DaveKCMO » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:43 pm

dejanes doesn't have an easement of any kind. time to move on...

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby flyingember » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:43 pm

She burned bridges by helping kill the vote in 2014. that would have directed money for Prospect MAX. I doubt the ATA has any love for her and any interest to play ball to her favor.

I would be surprised if her opinion at all the regional transit agencies isn't ruined. She should be treated as a non-entity in everything except how to counter her efforts.


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