OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Transportation topics in KC
missingkc
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by missingkc »

And no kvetching about the small number of potential voters.
JBmidtown
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by JBmidtown »

I wish it were here now.
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DaveKCMO
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

missingkc wrote:And no kvetching about the small number of potential voters.
Go get us some more! They're certainly out there and need some hand-holding.
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normalthings
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by normalthings »

What happens once this is passed in June? Do we wait for 2023 to start another expansion plan? Do we begin taking to outside neighborhoods and groups about expansion later this year once this vote is done?
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grovester
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by grovester »

Don't think the numbers work in any other corridor, time to go metro-wide!
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by KC_JAYHAWK »

so why are they doing a sales tax increase instead of the property tax levy increase on surrounding businesses. And yet only those surrounding businesses can vote? I must be missing something.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

ldai_phs wrote:What happens once this is passed in June? Do we wait for 2023 to start another expansion plan? Do we begin taking to outside neighborhoods and groups about expansion later this year once this vote is done?
Don't think the numbers work in any other corridor, time to go metro-wide!
Correct. This funding model only works where this is density and value. It only worked as a larger district in 2014 because the value of downtown and midtown could be leveraged to go east. Now that is no longer possible since midtown was extracted into it's own district.

A regional funding solution is required, but I don't think it should have a heavy streetcar component. We must address job access with lower cost solutions first. Perhaps you streetcar once new MAX corridors attract enough ridership (10-12 years) and we address land use issues that will make rail more compelling (Independence Avenue is probably best prepared for that and would dovetail nicely with a downtown KCK connection).

In the interim, we wait for the feds to give us a rating (medium and above is required) and a grant. It could be awhile, based on the current administration's dysfunction.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

KC_JAYHAWK wrote:so why are they doing a sales tax increase instead of the property tax levy increase on surrounding businesses. And yet only those surrounding businesses can vote? I must be missing something.
The TDD vote is both a sales tax on the entire district and special assessments along the route. Businesses don't vote in this country, only people.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by mykn »

DaveKCMO wrote:Businesses don't vote in this country, only people.
Corporations are people, my friend.
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normalthings
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by normalthings »

DaveKCMO wrote:
ldai_phs wrote:What happens once this is passed in June? Do we wait for 2023 to start another expansion plan? Do we begin taking to outside neighborhoods and groups about expansion later this year once this vote is done?
Don't think the numbers work in any other corridor, time to go metro-wide!
Correct. This funding model only works where this is density and value. It only worked as a larger district in 2014 because the value of downtown and midtown could be leveraged to go east. Now that is no longer possible since midtown was extracted into it's own district.

A regional funding solution is required, but I don't think it should have a heavy streetcar component. We must address job access with lower cost solutions first. Perhaps you streetcar once new MAX corridors attract enough ridership (10-12 years) and we address land use issues that will make rail more compelling (Independence Avenue is probably best prepared for that and would dovetail nicely with a downtown KCK connection).

In the interim, we wait for the feds to give us a rating (medium and above is required) and a grant. It could be awhile, based on the current administration's dysfunction.
Very interesting? Is there a program or website that allows you to easily see the property valuations of an area?
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

ldai_phs wrote:Very interesting? Is there a program or website that allows you to easily see the property valuations of an area?
Easily, no. It's very laborious to calculate aggregate value over a defined area. You would start by requesting the values from the county. Maybe someone could scrape the data from the parcel viewer or Ascend?
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by normalthings »

DaveKCMO wrote:
ldai_phs wrote:Very interesting? Is there a program or website that allows you to easily see the property valuations of an area?
Easily, no. It's very laborious to calculate aggregate value over a defined area. You would start by requesting the values from the county. Maybe someone could scrape the data from the parcel viewer or Ascend?
I will take a look at doing something like that. Just looking at residential property values, it looks like the areas along CCRW to 75th street are as high or higher than those in most of the midtown. I assume a lack of commercial properties drives this down
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

ldai_phs wrote:
DaveKCMO wrote:
ldai_phs wrote:Very interesting? Is there a program or website that allows you to easily see the property valuations of an area?
Easily, no. It's very laborious to calculate aggregate value over a defined area. You would start by requesting the values from the county. Maybe someone could scrape the data from the parcel viewer or Ascend?
I will take a look at doing something like that. Just looking at residential property values, it looks like the areas along CCRW to 75th street are as high or higher than those in most of the midtown. I assume a lack of commercial properties drives this down
Houses don't cut it and those houses have bigger lots. That's the problem. You need significant commercial -- which only exists in Downtown and Plaza -- to make the assessment numbers work for building streetcar. If you don't have that, then you need a LOT of retail sales -- again, that only exists in Westport/Plaza (and, suddenly, downtown). The 2014 proposal went so far east with sales tax to capture the stadiums, otherwise retail is pretty much nothing between RCP and there. We're not a valuable city on paper.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

The Greater KC Chamber has endorsed streetcar expansion. This is a sea change from previous proposals (starting with outright hostility to silence).

https://www.kcchamber.com/News-Room/New ... 18.aspx#20
Both votes were unanimous, as the Board of Directors of the Greater Kansas City Chamber of Commerce approved support of the April 3 measure to renew the one-cent sales tax for capital improvements and plans to extend the KC Streetcar north to the Missouri River and south to the Country Club Plaza and University of Missouri-Kansas City.

Support of the two measures was recommended by the Chamber’s KCMO Business Leadership Council.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by JBmidtown »

Dave, if congress switches blue after the midterm elections do you think we’ll be more likely to get matching funding for the extension? Or will the White House make things more complicated?

Also, how is the exploration into a private-public funding mechanism for the extension going?
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by FangKC »

I don't see it happening. Trump won't even support a new tunnel under the Hudson River than serves 820,000 passengers a day between New Jersey and New York City--his home city.

Even if the Dems retake the House, they still can't force a Republican Senate, and Trump, to go along. Even if Trump is booted out of office, you will probably still have Pence and a GOP-controlled Senate.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018 ... n-economy/
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember »

The best way would be to get Blunt on board. Make some political deal and he promotes funding the streetcar specifically in some bill.
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grovester
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by grovester »

Congressional appropriations are a lot more detailed and local than bluster from the white house or even congressional leaders.

Pretty sure our past grants have come out of republican congresses.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by WoodDraw »

FangKC wrote:I don't see it happening. Trump won't even support a new tunnel under the Hudson River than serves 820,000 passengers a day between New Jersey and New York City--his home city.

Even if the Dems retake the House, they still can't force a Republican Senate, and Trump, to go along. Even if Trump is booted out of office, you will probably still have Pence and a GOP-controlled Senate.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018 ... n-economy/
That's a specific appropriation and a weird thing that Trump happens to have knowledge of. Streetcar funding will go about a little differently.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

grovester wrote:Pretty sure our past grants have come out of republican congresses.
Correct. Trump isn't the first to try and gut the program, and this won't be the first Congress to resist.
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