OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

Transportation topics in KC
flyingember
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember »

grovester wrote:I'd like to hear options not including Chastain.
There's always taking a little money and putting it into a fund until there's enough.

adding $5 million per year, we could build in 20 or 25 years maybe.

Look at how many projects around the country have been delayed for decades waiting for a match from above the local level
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by MidtownCat »

The streetcar to the Plaza in 2030 is going to be pretty sweet. Of course we'll have self piloted passenger drones by then as well. Pretty exciting!
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grovester
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by grovester »

Perhaps some bonding authority outside the need for a public vote?
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

grovester wrote:Perhaps some bonding authority outside the need for a public vote?
TDDs can issue bonds backed by its revenue sources. can't think of a reason why you'd want to issue more debt above and beyond those revenue sources (and if you COULD, not sure why you WOULD).
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grovester
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by grovester »

Didn't imagine the tdd issuing more debt, maybe some other entity? Port Authority, public/private endeavour?

If matching funds are off the table what is the plan. City-wide tax without Chastain? How long does that take?
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember »

grovester wrote:Didn't imagine the tdd issuing more debt, maybe some other entity? Port Authority, public/private endeavour?

If matching funds are off the table what is the plan. City-wide tax without Chastain? How long does that take?
Years. Probably would need for another sales tax to sunset or be redirected. A citywide property tax for a project covering a tiny part of the city would fail hard.
Several budget forces compel the city’s decision to seek approval for the series of bonds, Schulte said.

The city’s general budget, which now devotes 76 percent to police and fire, is “cut to the bone” for other services, he said.

Adding to the city’s sale tax is not an option, he said, because it needs to preserve sales tax room as a contingency if the city were to lose the ability to assess its 1 percent earnings tax.
http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics ... 96418.html
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

grovester wrote:Didn't imagine the tdd issuing more debt, maybe some other entity? Port Authority, public/private endeavour?

If matching funds are off the table what is the plan. City-wide tax without Chastain? How long does that take?
we could carve out the KC project list from modot's amendment 7 (which passed in KC, but nowhere else) and put a multi-county TDD in front of voters that's just a sales tax (so it only requires a single election). a multi-county TDD has never been done, but neither had the form of the downtown streetcar TDD (voted on by residents with special assessments; the loop trolley TDD -- the only other streetcar TDD in missouri -- is only a sales tax).

intentionally tying anything to chastain is a non-starter, but if it passes by some freak of nature it will certainly be a conversation.

a citywide tax without chastain -- the two his latest plan targets would be ideal for constructing and operating a streetcar extension -- could go on any ballot. as was the case when jackson county planned to pursue a transit sales tax in 2012, the downtown/midtown TDD could reduce its 1% sales tax and draw that same rate from the new citywide tax.
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grovester
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by grovester »

Not seeing a clear path without fed funding, unless you're being intentionally vague.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

grovester wrote:Not seeing a clear path without fed funding, unless you're being intentionally vague.
it exists, but would require a lot of extra effort.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by WoodDraw »

Am I wrong in thinking that we shouldn't expand too rapidly? I can see to the plaza and I guess umkc, but I have a hard time justifying anything else. We want to increase density, not just run a streetcar all over the city for fun.

I also think it helps to have local buy in.

I'd 100% support any vote telling Chastain to fuck off though.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by grovester »

Ok, next question. What is the real politik regarding fed funding? Trump's blueprint not withstanding, any chance of some congressional support? A chance in 2 years or are we looking next presidential?
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by WoodDraw »

grovester wrote:Ok, next question. What is the real politik regarding fed funding? Trump's blueprint not withstanding, any chance of some congressional support? A chance in 2 years or are we looking next presidential?
I'd say it's very unlikely that federal funding goes away. Everyone in Congress likes to send a bit home, and this is an easy way to do it.

Pure speculation though
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by beautyfromashes »

If the extension election would have happened earlier instead of being delayed by the council, would we have had a chance at getting matching federal funds approved before the new administration came in?
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

beautyfromashes wrote:If the extension election would have happened earlier instead of being delayed by the council, would we have had a chance at getting matching federal funds approved before the new administration came in?
absolutely.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by beautyfromashes »

^^ So, if the federal funds don't come through, the council and mayor have to shoulder some of the responsibility by delaying the election? Those who agreed with the delay for the bond issue would also have some bland as well?
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember »

beautyfromashes wrote:^^ So, if the federal funds don't come through, the council and mayor have to shoulder some of the responsibility by delaying the election? Those who agreed with the delay for the bond issue would also have some bland as well?
hindsight is 20-20
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by taxi »

beautyfromashes wrote:^^ So, if the federal funds don't come through, the council and mayor have to shoulder some of the responsibility by delaying the election? Those who agreed with the delay for the bond issue would also have some bland as well?
If the mayor and council did not delay the expansion vote because they knew Trump would become president, you might now be accusing them of Russian the election.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by beautyfromashes »

flyingember wrote: hindsight is 20-20
Yes, but there was so much noise about delaying the vote and that it could derail the extension due to politics, either Federal or local. KCP and myself talked about it in the Streetcar Opposition thread and we're mostly dismissed.

The streetcar leaders have done well on so many things, but their overconfidence after the launch of the initial line seems to have caused missteps in getting the extension.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by hgascoigne »

JBmidtown
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by JBmidtown »

Haha oh wow lololol I haven't heard THAT comparison before. Do you also think the streetcar is a BOONDOGGLE? Is it a TOY TRAIN? I you should pay yourself on the back for such staggering originality.
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