Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Transportation topics in KC
User avatar
beautyfromashes
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3959
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby beautyfromashes » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:33 pm

^ And that’s where my opinion differs from most of yours. I want streetcar for development of Midtown first and as a commuting option second. Those who don’t live in Midtown want a quick run through the neighborhood to get to a restaurant on The Plaza or First Friday’s or Sprint Center. I understand that viewpoint since that is what would be best for your particular use. I want more stops and better access to, hopefully new, shops and bars/restaurants in Midtown because this benefits my use.

User avatar
GRID
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 14174
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby GRID » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:02 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:^ And that’s where my opinion differs from most of yours. I want streetcar for development of Midtown first and as a commuting option second. Those who don’t live in Midtown want a quick run through the neighborhood to get to a restaurant on The Plaza or First Friday’s or Sprint Center. I understand that viewpoint since that is what would be best for your particular use. I want more stops and better access to, hopefully new, shops and bars/restaurants in Midtown because this benefits my use.


Why couldn't you have the best of both worlds? Center running will speed up transit times and reduce issues with blocking streetcars with parked cars etc. Even if you are not commuting, why should it take longer to just go a few stops? KC has streetcars, not light rail, so it's more scaled to the urban locals, not commuters anyway, but I would still try to get as much of the line in dedicated ROW.

I think they should do something very similar to what they did on Euclid in Cleveland for their BRT line. Reduce Main to two through lanes, have center lane tracks and stations (should also allow for larger stations) and you would still have room for a bike lane and possibly curb parking in some areas.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cleve ... 81.6943605

aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12216
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:04 am

flyingember wrote:
KCPowercat wrote:
beautyfromashes wrote:It’s going to be terrible for traffic in Midtown and I don’t trust that ‘experts’ have it figured out. No left turns on all of Main will be a mess for residents. How is someone going south on Main supposed to get to their home in Hyde Park or going North get to a home west of Main? You’re creating a SW Trafficway type barrier. But, I get the feeling that those in charge don’t really care. They talk about commute tunes but really their talking about their own commute times or are more worried about getting quickly from DT to shopping on The Plaza. Not saying I’m against the streetcar, just that residents concerns are being listened to but not a deciding factor in design.


I've seen nothing to suggest no left turns throughout midtown.


it wouldn't really matter if you did or didn't see them. people who live off SW Tfwy have lived with no left turns for decades and they get around fine

it's one of those arguments that looks good until you look around and discover people adjust well


Yes, people adjust well. Three right turns instead of one left are used by many delivery services for safety reasons.

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 16091
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby DaveKCMO » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:57 am

kboish wrote:So voter turnout for PIAC is estimated around 8%. Thats pathetic. Does anyone know how many ballots were requested for streetcar?


5,044 ballots requested by the deadline, compared to about 35,000 registered voters in the new TDD.

For the formation election last year, 6,161 applications were received and 3,642 ballots were returned.

It will be hard to do worse than the PIAC turnout. I'm waiting for the naysayers: "Only 29,000 voters committed the city to $1.6 billion!"

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 16091
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby DaveKCMO » Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:08 am

beautyfromashes wrote:^ And that’s where my opinion differs from most of yours. I want streetcar for development of Midtown first and as a commuting option second. Those who don’t live in Midtown want a quick run through the neighborhood to get to a restaurant on The Plaza or First Friday’s or Sprint Center. I understand that viewpoint since that is what would be best for your particular use. I want more stops and better access to, hopefully new, shops and bars/restaurants in Midtown because this benefits my use.


It's not just speed, it's reliability.

flyingember
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6325
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby flyingember » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:51 pm

ldai_phs wrote:
beautyfromashes wrote:
GRID wrote:Yeah, I don't see the big deal with restricting left turns.

Yeah, but put the streetcar on the curb and it isn’t a problem at all. Instead, we put it in the middle so we don’t have to worry about Ubers having a place to park on Main?


Center Running is faster and has less delays. Real Light Rail like in Houston run in dedicated center lanes. We should do the same imho.
Curb running sets curb usage in stone for many years to come. Curb running is slower and has more delays.Curb Running isn’t used by long distance LR systems.

My rough math says Houston averages 30mph. It could stop at ~45 intersections and has 28 stops in 13 miles. They have the system tuned well to not end up with 70+ different interruptions.

30mph is as fast as a bus can move but their design decisions mean you can count on the train to come as often as they say it will
and they have 45,000 daily riders on the line and most bus lines transfer, so it could easily have delays due to boarding slowdowns.

you don't see bunching, or delays caused by cars. If the Houston website says a train will arrive at 8:15am, the next at 8:25, you need to be at the stop at 8:15 or you're waiting for the 8:25 train

User avatar
im2kull
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3228
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: KCMO

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby im2kull » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:47 pm

smh wrote:ATA sued her regarding her fence that encroaches by about 40 feet into the Country Club ROW.


It's about time.

She's been suing the city for YEARS over stupid stuff. Yet, she has a legitimate encroachment from her property onto city property. Completely wrong.

flyingember
One Park Place
One Park Place
Posts: 6325
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby flyingember » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:14 pm

im2kull wrote:
smh wrote:ATA sued her regarding her fence that encroaches by about 40 feet into the Country Club ROW.


It's about time.

She's been suing the city for YEARS over stupid stuff. Yet, she has a legitimate encroachment from her property onto city property. Completely wrong.

NOT city property. It's independently owned by the ATA corporation.

The ATA is a special bi-state legislatively defined corporation that has an independent corporate board. Both KS and MO had to pass a special law so it could legally be the same company in both states, and they added rules it operates under as a result. it's independent of any specific city or county.

Each entity like JoCo, Platte, KCMO etc get to pick a board member. Looks like KCMO picked a pastor for this term.

It's not strictly correct, but basically the people of Kansas owns that land as much as the people of Missouri does.

The city of KCMO doesn't operate the streetcar either. It's an independent entity equal to the city in terms of it's legal basis. That's why a circuit court judge, the initial state-level court, rules on the district legality, not a municipal judge. Not one person on the board is a city employee.

User avatar
im2kull
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3228
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: KCMO

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby im2kull » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:17 pm

flyingember wrote:
im2kull wrote:
smh wrote:ATA sued her regarding her fence that encroaches by about 40 feet into the Country Club ROW.


It's about time.

She's been suing the city for YEARS over stupid stuff. Yet, she has a legitimate encroachment from her property onto city property. Completely wrong.

NOT city property. It's independently owned by the ATA corporation.

The ATA is a special bi-state legislatively defined corporation that has an independent corporate board. Both KS and MO had to pass a special law so it could legally be the same company in both states, and they added rules it operates under as a result. it's independent of any specific city or county.

Each entity like JoCo, Platte, KCMO etc get to pick a board member. Looks like KCMO picked a pastor for this term.

It's not strictly correct, but basically the people of Kansas owns that land as much as the people of Missouri does.

The city of KCMO doesn't operate the streetcar either. It's an independent entity equal to the city in terms of it's legal basis. That's why a circuit court judge, the initial state-level court, rules on the district legality, not a municipal judge. Not one person on the board is a city employee.



Regardless she's been squatting on property that isn't hers for DECADES WHILE suing the city (Or whoever) to try and stop the actual owner of the property she's squatting on, from using their property to build whatever they'd like. She's a stereotypical hypocritical idiot.

moderne
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3898
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:50 pm
Location: downtown

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby moderne » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:35 pm

No stop at 31st, a major east-west bus route? My spouse and I may have to change our vote without a Union Hill stop.

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 16091
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby DaveKCMO » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:39 pm

moderne wrote:No stop at 31st, a major east-west bus route? My spouse and I may have to change our vote without a Union Hill stop.


Not final. Regardless, route 31 would serve the Linwood stop directly if that's the final plan. There are a dozen transportation planners working on this. ;-)

That said, please complete this survey and let the team know your thoughts on the proposed stops: http://kcstreetcar.org/feedback-survey/

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3959
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby beautyfromashes » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:43 pm

moderne wrote:No stop at 31st, a major east-west bus route? My spouse and I may have to change our vote without a Union Hill stop.

Over less than two blocks?!

Darlene
Parking Garage
Parking Garage
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:14 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby Darlene » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:19 am

Do people ride this thing? I am worried traffic will get even worse after this.

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 16091
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby DaveKCMO » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:30 am

Darlene wrote:Do people ride this thing? I am worried traffic will get even worse after this.


Ridership: http://kcstreetcar.org/ridership/

We have no urban congestion and the city now is legally obligated to make Main a “complete street” for all users: http://kcmo.gov/publicworks/completestreets/

Darlene
Parking Garage
Parking Garage
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:14 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby Darlene » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:43 am

What do you mean the city is obligated to make it a complete street?

watcher64110
Parking Garage
Parking Garage
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:56 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby watcher64110 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:32 am

The current suggested stops move both current Union Hill transit stops far out of the neighborhood (29th to 27th and 31st to Linwood.) Not to mention the loss of opportunity/momentum to reinvent 31st Street as a more desirable for pedestrians, something many of us have hoped. It's a double whammy for a lot of folks who bought homes in the neighborhood (at a premium!) partly due to its proximity to the potential streetcar.

In short they are removing our access points, making it far less convenient and desirable for Union Hill residents to use, while asking us to pay for it...to make it bit faster for someone else to get from downtown to the plaza. Really? If we are paying a premium we should get a benefit, not a downgrade!

As someone who has enthusiastically supported transit projects here over the past 20 years, if we lose both our stops, I will changing my vote to NO and encouraging my neighbors to do the same! It will make me very sad, but we can't help but feel screwed.

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 16091
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby DaveKCMO » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:20 am

The study phase isn't over. It will conclude before your ballots are due on June 12. Please leave feedback using this survey: http://kcstreetcar.org/feedback-survey/

Also, no one is removing your access. The longer distances are within the walk shed of the streetcar. It's important to note that the data showed a preference for Linwood over 31st, assuming you had to just pick one.

User avatar
ldai_phs
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby ldai_phs » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:47 am

watcher64110 wrote:The current suggested stops move both current Union Hill transit stops far out of the neighborhood (29th to 27th and 31st to Linwood.) Not to mention the loss of opportunity/momentum to reinvent 31st Street as a more desirable for pedestrians, something many of us have hoped. It's a double whammy for a lot of folks who bought homes in the neighborhood (at a premium!) partly due to its proximity to the potential streetcar.

In short they are removing our access points, making it far less convenient and desirable for Union Hill residents to use, while asking us to pay for it...to make it bit faster for someone else to get from downtown to the plaza. Really? If we are paying a premium we should get a benefit, not a downgrade!

As someone who has enthusiastically supported transit projects here over the past 20 years, if we lose both our stops, I will change my vote to NO and encourage my neighbors to do the same! It will make me very sad, but we can't help but feel screwed.


Buying a house based on uncertain forward-looking information comes with risk. You risked buying at a premium in exchange for something maybe coming in many years.(speculation) Now that thing is maybe not coming, You want to block everyone else from having it.
That type of thinking is very KCish. This "It doesn't directly benefit me that much so we must stop it" mentality even though indirectly you benefit and directly the greater community benefits.

But the stops are not even set in stone yet. Your property values will continue to rise regardless of if a stop is built next to you as long as the line is built.

mykn
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 425
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:33 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby mykn » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:43 am

I’m in the same but opposite situation. I stand to benefit in the same way you would if the stop is at Linwood, but I knew that the stop locations, or streetcar extension, was uncertain when I bought my house and I won’t vote against the expansion if I don’t get a stop at Linwood. I still get a denser neighborhood with more businesses on main st. You still benefit!

That being said, vote Linwood stop :-)

moderne
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3898
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:50 pm
Location: downtown

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby moderne » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:53 am

Why not Linwood and 31st both? No closer together than 43rd, 45th and Cleaver II.


Return to “Kansas City Transportation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests