OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

[aknowledgeableperson]

How about we make a traffic circle where the tennis courts are? This would connect Main, Broadway, Brookside, ECII, Ward Parkway, Main south of BC, etc and might have a gentle enough turn for streetcars.

Dedicated park land.

[DaveKCMO]

also, let's just focus on making transit and pedestrian improvements. we've done little "good" in years past by trying to "improve" the situation for cars. a traffic circle doesn't necessarily make it better for people or streetcars.

[flyingember]

also, let's just focus on making transit and pedestrian improvements. we've done little "good" in years past by trying to "improve" the situation for cars. a traffic circle doesn't necessarily make it better for people or streetcars.

47th and Main is the only intersection I'd argue otherwise in the city. the problem is fixing it would move the problem down a block.

unless the streetcar can move to the parallel row to westport that's going to be a choke point. it's not uncommon to take two light cycles to get through that intersection right now. with the row you just add a cycle for the streetcar to angle through the intersection. maybe even have a signal priority to where it always gets to go next when it gets there.

[flyingember]

kansas city has a tourism office on the plaza already too. I believe it's run by highwoods as customer service but it serves the same purpose.

I am aware of this, but I think having a location right next to the streetcar stop makes more sense. I'd like to see one or two other similar locations along the route, especially near 12th/13th/14th and Main.

I could see moving it.

but if it's going to be moved, I'd pull it off the plaza completely and take it downtown. there really isn't a tourism office downtown.

[DaveKCMO]

will a tourism office generate tax revenue? if not, then don't bother. tourists can find info online like the rest of us grownups.

[flyingember]

the SE corner of Clever and Main is part of a continuous rail banked transit route owned by the KCATA from 85th to Westport. given we're wanting to put a transit line in the area cutting that up seems like a very bad idea.

The weird parking lot behind Grand Street is? Main transitioning to Brookside is insanely wide, so I don't really see the need to reserve space on the side of the road for the streetcar.

not on the side of the road, a whole new bridge like there once was. but it doesn't work unless the old streetcar row is returned to transit and it's cheaper to build a new bridge than retrofitting the Brookside bridge, should that be needed

[flyingember]

will a tourism office generate tax revenue? if not, then don't bother. tourists can find info online like the rest of us grownups.

proven yes.

see page 7

http://industry.visitmo.com/Portals/1/R ... EVISED.pdf

[flyingember]

will a tourism office generate tax revenue? if not, then don't bother. tourists can find info online like the rest of us grownups.

proven yes.

see page 7

http://industry.visitmo.com/Portals/1/R ... EVISED.pdf

and page 8
there's 36,000 tourism related jobs in Jackson County with $1.4 billion in 2010 during the recession.

Kansas City has a lot of tourism growth potential.
The numbers we're talking about if they're brought to downtown would pay for the expansion lines.

[Eon Blue]

I'm not a fan of the Streetcar going on Broadway at all. A jog at Linwood or 31st would add cost, time and decrease simplicity--which is important for attracting new riders. There is also essentially zero development potential between 42nd and 47th with St. Luke's on one side and parks on the other.

Main Street already has a BRT line that runs on 10 minute headways and features full buses at peak times. Broadway has a traditional bus route that runs on 25 or 30 minute headways. I can't speak for how full the buses are but the handful of times I've rode that route they've only been half-full or so. A big part of successful rail transit is identifying a bus route with strong ridership--Main Street.

Additionally, through midtown Main Street has just as many if not more opportunities for new development. Let Broadway have the MAX equipment and build up its ridership. In time, one or more east-west streetcar routes may intersect it and utilize both the Main Street streetcar line and the Broadway MAX.

[earthling]

^And is of utmost importance that the streetcar line runs as often as MAX or more otherwise it should be a nogo until funded enough that it can. Frankly the streetcar will do nothing for me as I already use MAX regularly and it runs often enough. But if streetcar encourages TOD, higher ridership and/or increases property values then I'm all for it - especially if the MAX Orange line is moved to Broadway.

NE Side could probably use the next streetcar line more than Main through Midtown given MAX is sufficient and already busy but it is a natural extension from Union Station. Would like to see NE Side get the next new line (on Independence Ave).

[DaveKCMO]

one MAX bus holds ~45 people, while one modern streetcar holds 115-149 people. also: bikes/strollers/wheelchairs roll on, reducing dwell times

there's your improvement over today's MAX!

[earthling]

Hmm.. it needs to run every 10 minutes like MAX or isn't worth doing. Regular riders want regular service _before_ larger buses/trains. Although if MAX is moved to Broadway and runs every 10 min, then it doesn't matter. The streetcar will then indeed be a touristy froufrou thing if it doesn't run often as MAX.

How often will the first streetcar leg run?

[DaveKCMO]

Hmm.. it needs to run every 10 minutes like MAX or isn't worth doing. Regular riders want regular service _before_ larger buses/trains. Although if MAX is moved to Broadway and runs every 10 min, then it doesn't matter. The streetcar will then indeed be a touristy froufrou thing if it doesn't run often as MAX.

How often will the first streetcar leg run?

You can expect 10 minutes peak headway for any streetcar line in KC.

[pash]

.

[kboish]

I'd rather see the MAX bus turn into a faster complement to the streetcar. Have the streetcar continue to make stops every two to four blocks through midtown, like it will downtown, and spread out the stops for the Max bus to only about one every mile.

I could see this being a good idea. AS LONG AS they straighten it out DT> I'd even be ok if the max jogged over on grand through CC and stayed on grand the rest of the way to the RM though (which is hardly even a jog to another street) Just stay on one damn street.

[cknab1]

If they would only do that. I love taking the Max to the Plaza from Crown Center but it’s just a drag going to the City Market.

[flyingember]

the question I see on keeping MAX on Main comes down to how is the streetcar route going to be done both in function and street form.

If the streetcar is treated more as an express service with 5-6 stops then move MAX to Broadway. It can intersect Main at the Plaza easily. Plus, this would be a good test to see if Broadway would benefit from a streetcar.

To straighten MAX Downtown needs an area coverage bus like NKC has. Something small and agile that moves people around the area all day. Instead of one infrequent 40 person bus one one route have multiple 15 people busses on different routes running more often.

[earthling]

Is not bad idea to use MAX for better express on Main but given tight funds and need for better service on other lines, doubling up on Main is a bit overkill. If no new funding for more MAX lines is in sight, move it to Bway. It needs consistent 10-15min service badly, especially for heart of Westport to downtown/plaza and Armour/Bway investments going on.

Also would give visitors more direct access to Westport, SW side, Uptown theatre and more city overall. My vote is move MAX Orange line to Broadway. Also place bikeshare stations at major crosstown drags on each line, like Linwood, 39th at Bway/Main.

[flyingember]

Thinking further, the MAX name is a good one and could help focus the system.

Maybe that should be the streetcar line branding. Don't have an actual name for the whole system but piggyback on the current naming convention. Treating each system as seperate just builds off the idea of not using the bus. Treat them as seperate modes of a common system.

Inside the loop you have the Main Street MAX streetcar.

To get people to it implement a downtown connector service. Use lots of those 15 people busses and put them on simpler, quicker paths on more streets. You can run more frequently at peak times and cut the staff usage outside of peak times.

The current MAX bus line would meet at Union Station for a direct transfer. It would no longer run inside downtown. Something similar could be done for Troost MAX when an E-W line is implemented but at a different end point.

Down the line, south of Union Station You have the Main Street MAX streetcar line all the way to UMKC as a rapid service line with 5-6 stops and local bus service taking over for general midtown coverage. The Main Street MAX bus stops running in midtown. It takes over getting to Waldo and further south.

The MAX branded busses could largely move to Broadway and that bus line becomes the Broadway MAX. Then down the line the streetcar takes over from the bus on Broadway when ridership is proven and money is available in stages, maybe a downtown segment first with bus taking over south of Pershing followed by the section through midtown and the busses then move to a new street. It remains the Broadway MAX line in name too with a streetcar.

[earthling]

Could note by color line rather than transit mode. That is, Orange is Main, Green is Troost, Blue is Broadway, Red or whatever for Indy Ave/NE Side. No matter the mode, you note which color line to take.