OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

[DaveKCMO]

So Dave, if the lawyers/courtes come through, will the UMKC expansion need another vote?

just the two additional TDD-specific votes that were already discussed. see the schedule here: http://kcrta.org/streetcar/

[SWFan]

That is the whole point of Q1. They don't like the TDD because it wins.

I suspect it will be deemed unconstitutional or something by council and not affect much except for bad press. I hope.

and this vote again proves why the folks in Platte & Clay County, and probably Eastern/Southern Jackson in KCMO should not get the opportunity to vote on these issues. Suburbanites will NOT vote in favor of transit, that's just the fact of life in America.

I'm in Clay County and would agree that I'd be fine not being able to vote on these issues. With the caveat that if whatever the issue is passes it doesn't increase my taxes. If the city were to try and pass a city sales tax increase that is in effect for all of KCMO, then all of Jackson, Clay & Platte County residents that live in KCMO proper need to be guaranteed a chance to vote on the issue.

But for things such as a property tax increase on properties along the street car line to fund the street car system, yeah, I don't need to be able to vote on that.

[KC_JAYHAWK]

I guess I still don't understand the issue here with Q1...so now the city planning commission can be fined for any streetcar planning? Isn't that what a planning commission does...plan? I don't get it. Who put this question on the ballot? I really haven't followed much, I thought the mail in vote for the TDD was it.

[taxi]

The first headline I saw this morning was from KCTV Ch. 5, which said, "Kansas City voters narrowly approve new KC Streetcar plan". So, we can reasonably assume that the morons who wrote that headline are college-educated, in addition to being gainfully employed in the journalism industry, probably somewhat progressive and therefor informed on local issues. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt what UrbanKC, Chuck and so many others stated above is very true. And it gives me even more respect for activists like Dave who continue their efforts in the face of such ignorance and adversity.

I voted for CC's cockamamey scheme because it was a funding mechanism that fills a major gap. If I am not mistaken, the TDD cannot fund the expansion alone. So... how else do we fill that gap? I think I recall reading it was something like $60M.

[rxlexi]

Personally, I think you set the vote and make sure the language is right and election is right. Make it say, "Can the Midtown TDD (boundaries) vote to tax themselves to expand the streetcar? No taxes will be collected outside the district for this project and no city funds will be used for its creation." I trust that if it is worded correctly and is clear and honest, it would pass. Of course, probably wouldn't hurt to buy off the East Side with free buses to ensure a win, self serving and all.

This makes too much sense.

I've got to think (hope?) that a lot of the opposition votes were simply the "don't wanna pay for something that won't benefit me" crowd, rather than folks with some ideological opposition to any and all transit. Though there is surely some overlap there.

Similar to the KCI debate. The most important thing by far is to make sure voters understand that these are not tax increases, and that they are not being asked, nor will they be asked, to contribute financially to these projects (unless living in delineated TDD). Not sure we are communicating that, the most important factor to most voters, effectively in these cases.

[WoodDraw]

I can't even believe that people endorsed CC's bullshit.

not apologizing. the thought was that it would drive new streetcar supporters to the polls that would also vote no on question 1 (the real threat). and maybe it did, we will never know. note that the endorsement was released the day after TDD voting ended. there were serious conversations about building something with that revenue and dealing with the legal implications as they arise.

our #1 goal was passing the TDD, which was successful by a large margin (and sucked up most of the opposition's cash). if a majority of the council and lawyers act as expected, the TDD and technical work continue without delay. thankfully, there is no northland majority on the council.

ultimately, this all goes back to how easy it is to put petition initiatives on the ballot. that must change.

You'll never know? All you have to do is compare Q1 to Q2. He's a nut job and toxic to Kansas City.

[kcjak]

The first headline I saw this morning was from KCTV Ch. 5, which said, "Kansas City voters narrowly approve new KC Streetcar plan". So, we can reasonably assume that the morons who wrote that headline are college-educated, in addition to being gainfully employed in the journalism industry, probably somewhat progressive and therefor informed on local issues. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt what UrbanKC, Chuck and so many others stated above is very true. And it gives me even more respect for activists like Dave who continue their efforts in the face of such ignorance and adversity.

I voted for CC's cockamamey scheme because it was a funding mechanism that fills a major gap. If I am not mistaken, the TDD cannot fund the expansion alone. So... how else do we fill that gap? I think I recall reading it was something like $60M.

I know first-hand and second-hand of four people who thought that Q1 was FOR the expansion of the streetcar. They didn't understand that the current line and expansion were possible because of the TDD voting and thought that Q1 meant they were voting for residents to continue to vote for expansions.

[earthling]

^Also ran into a person also thinking Q1 was 'for streetcar'. Corrected him before the voting but that was probably a major issue.

[chingon]

I've sat through more post-election post-mortems than I care to remember, but this one is pretty simple: there was no opposition to a ballot question which

1. appears to let people decide what happens with their tax money
2. feeds off of suburban resentment of the urban core
3. is a racial dog whistle

The fact that it barely passed is a tribute to west side urban core voters.

[taxi]

I wonder if those who wrote Q1 insidiously used language to make it confusing.

[flyingember]

I wonder if those who wrote Q1 insidiously used language to make it confusing.

do you expect anything different?

[flyingember]

I've sat through more post-election post-mortems than I care to remember, but this one is pretty simple: there was no opposition to a ballot question which appears to let people decide what happens with their tax money. The fact that it barely passed is a tribute to west side urban core voters.

The city being silent certainly didn't help. Everything about yesterday's elections was wishy washy

[chingon]

The city being silent certainly didn't help. Everything about yesterday's elections was wishy washy

That's what happens when half the people on a council are running for mayor for 3 years. And unless people make it clear that they care about actual governance in the meantime, and that this level of fence-sitting and pandering will have consequences in corridor votes come 2019, then you can expect more of the same.

[grovester]

I know first-hand and second-hand of four people who thought that Q1 was FOR the expansion of the streetcar. They didn't understand that the current line and expansion were possible because of the TDD voting and thought that Q1 meant they were voting for residents to continue to vote for expansions.

^This. A lot.

[JBmidtown]

ok so instead of Clay putting forward comprehensive transit plans/funding mechanisms why don't we? Obviously the piecemeal TDD formation is going to be the central strategy for any future expansion efforts but why not also focus on city wide sales taxes?

That's the singular reason I voted yes on Q2. I have no love for Chastain and his egotistical nonsense. I just want the 2 x 3/8 sales taxes to fund improvements to our public transit system and to help provide matching fund for TDD property taxes.

If we want to succeed at protecting the momentum of the urban core we need to ACTIVELY do three things:
1) educate and unify the central city on transit improvement
2) campaign for pro-transit city council/mayoral candidates
3) use the petition initiative against the anti-everything crowd until we wear them down and they give up

I still think we should consider trimming off city boundaries to better represent the political leanings of the urban core. It's not okay to be controlled by a small contingent north of the river. Tell me why I'm wrong.

Also to the millennial participation trophy comment: eat my shorts, old man.

[WSPanic]

ok so instead of Clay putting forward comprehensive transit plans/funding mechanisms why don't we? Obviously the piecemeal TDD formation is going to be the central strategy for any future expansion efforts but why not also focus on city wide sales taxes?

That's the singular reason I voted yes on Q2. I have no love for Chastain and his egotistical nonsense. I just want the 2 x 3/8 sales taxes to fund improvements to our public transit system and to help provide matching fund for TDD property taxes.

If we want to succeed at protecting the momentum of the urban core we need to ACTIVELY do three things:
1) educate and unify the central city on transit improvement
2) campaign for pro-transit city council/mayoral candidates
3) use the petition initiative against the anti-everything crowd until we wear them down and they give up

I still think we should consider trimming off city boundaries to better represent the political leanings of the urban core. It's not okay to be controlled by a small contingent north of the river. Tell me why I'm wrong.

Also to the millennial participation trophy comment: eat my shorts, old man.

I thought you moved to Portland or something... - just kidding.

But I do think it's short-sighted and silly to jettison parts of the city because a vote didn't go your way. Limiting KC to just the urban core wouldn't leave us money to do anything we wanted to do. Having to appease other parts of the city - and maybe coming up with legislation that makes sense - isn't necessarily a bad thing. This whole "let's approve Chastain's batshit crazy bill so we can use the money" plan was ill conceived at-best.

KC will continue to progress and make changes. Not to sound too "old-ballsy", but if you had experienced this urban core 20 or 30 years ago, you'd have a bit more appreciation for the progress that has been made the past two decades. It has been pretty remarkable. And based on its success, it will continue.

[flyingember]

I think the next step is obvious. We need a to usurp the finances of the east side with two things on a ballot together

Do it as a giant multi-city TDD that includes NKC, Gladstone, Grandview, Raytown and other places in Missouri currently covered by the bus

A new 3/8 cent citywide tax for:
New rail service in a similar scope to recent plans, but take out the east side and do a strong N-S spine
Expanded bus service into more parts of the city
free bus and train service for users or all lines that stay entirely in Missouri
A mandate to reorganize the bus network around the train

The third item is the sweetener for the east side. They don't get rail because they're getting the service they want.

[beautyfromashes]

Someone explain why we would want to expand bus service out even further? And why should we pay for free busses? It's not a development generator for the city. No ones going to build a new building because busses are free. And, why make it easy for people to easily come into the city on super fast highways and non-pedestrian oriented roads to take advantage of all the city has to offer then drive home? Continue to make the city center the place to be for entertainment, restaurants, and (more) businesses and make it difficult to leave. Slow the roads for pedestrians, take out the North Loop, and cut bus service at the city line. I think adding 15 minutes to someone's commute has a better chance at getting a young person to move DT and never go back. Separate from the suburbs.

[flyingember]

Once you said to cut bus service at the city line and to separate from the suburbs I knew the ideas were infeasible

we need to jump start the demand for jobs downtown.

People really don't want to drive, it's just the more economic option. change that.

This is the real world, we need to do the opposite of what you say and draw the rest of the city that don't live in the urban core to come downtown. If the options are to pay for a car and gas to drive to Kansas or it's free to hop on transit from the KCMO suburbs p, Gladstone, Liberty, Raytown and such which do you think moves things forward downtown?

You can't cut the north loop without improved transit service because modot needs to see less demand for roads. The northland is on track to add 100-150,000 residents in the coming decades. That's enough traffic to max out I-35 and a freeway widening is coming instead.

You cannot make it difficult to leave downtown with the etax. It provides operating funds used citywide. Kansas is funding much of KCMO services today.

Downtown becomes a stronger center of the city by drawing people downtown, not trapping people in it.

[beautyfromashes]

Downtown becomes a stronger center of the city by drawing people downtown, not trapping people in it.

I'm not talking about trapping people.

In the past, and it still continues, we have had the goal of making it possible to live in the urban core and still have all the amnenities that a modern family wants. (Quality schools is the last of those items that need to be provided.) I'm merely saying that we should now reach the point where we compete. We've made it too easy to spend small amounts of time in the city and then bolt to the burbs. Kansas has been doing this already for decades. If you look at I35, it's at least 5 lanes each way until you start getting closer to DT. They're purposefully cutting down traffic to areas they don't want people to go. Make it easy and desiresble to stay in the city and also get everything you need without zipping to the burbs.