Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

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flyingember
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:29 am

DaveKCMO wrote: there are plenty of options that could add street life to cleaver, main, or nichols without selling off the tennis court land. a restaurant that serves the tennis courts (and the public) is one option -- or simply better transparency in the structure that is there today. an outdoor roller skating/ice skating rink like this temporary one next to the high line would also be an excellent (active) adaptation:

...

that being said, we should sell off the land and develop it (respecting the plaza bowl, etc etc). there's a massive well-used park across the street and plenty of open space along brush creek in both directions.
Seems to me the best plan would be mixed use and maintain tennis.

Put a 2 or 3 story building and move tennis to the roof. If it was built at the street like the rest of the plaza would provide more usable space for the tennis center. Would have great views and there's plenty of examples of this even in KC http://www.starwoodhotels.com/westin/pr ... onId=29018

Don't sell off the land from parks, develop it for the city.

Done right the same building could include space for Ride KC and/or Visit KC to serve as a customer service space. Buy bus passes, help travelers in KC get around and the like. With the Plaza customer service space shutting down, another tourism location could be smart and being city owned it could be rent free. I also picture an inside playground so the area gains a 12 month parks facility for families. Zona Rosa has one that's popular. Doesn't take up much space relative to the use it would get.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by kcjak » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:58 am

I'd like to see the tennis facility moved west of the Plaza where they already have two public tennis courts on the south bank of Brush Creek. But I'm highly doubtful that the public would vote to turn over the current location to the highest bidder. And then what happens when the developer puts in a monstrosity like the Country Club Bank building?

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by kcmiz » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:29 pm

The city has too much park land and can't realistically maintain what it has. One has to look no further the poorly maintained Mill Creek Park, Brush Creek, Penn Valley Park, and the list goes on. Someone with some ambition in the city government should realize the underutilized value they have in their real estate holdings. Sell off the tennis center land and parts of Penn Valley Park to generate funds so you can actually pay to maintain the parks you have.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by normalthings » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:34 pm

Selling assets to maintain other assets is probably a bad idea. While I do believe there are too many parks, I think it is very likely that we will regret the sales later.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by earthling » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:38 pm

^The tennis center property doesn't have to be sold off to become a transit center (transit park?) with amenities. Anything that is in alignment with potentially thousands of daily people likely to be at the Plaza streetcar stop (especially weekends) would be better than a few dozen people (100 peak?) using the courts each day - and unused in bad/cold weather too.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:06 am

Nice try. Don't think that would fly with the Park's Board.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by earthling » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:05 am

^If you mean because they can be unreasonable and let politics get in way, yeah, would expect that. But the most reasonable solution is to do what is most optimal for such a primo spot and it wouldn't be surprising if those in control don't even bother to consider what is best for the larger whole. We're not talking about special use for isolated office building, but broader use for a much larger public base like 3rd/Grand transit center. Not only is tennis center used by very few, it's uninviting with it's walled garden fencing. There's nothing about it that will integrate with Plaza streetcar stop, moving courts to N end of Mill Creek Park is a better fit.

A 'transit park' that offers amenities can still be in control of Parks Dept but would be even better if out of hands of board by re-purposing the lot. If it needs to go for a vote, proponents would need a solid vision (with renderings) for what it can be used for to show that it would have more public benefit than the few people who use the courts.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:17 am

Calling it a transit "park" doesn't change the nature of what it is. Transit "stop". You re arguing the point from your point-of-view. I would imagine many more would argue theirs from a very different point-of-view. And that would be a city-wide point-of-view.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:31 am

The major problem I see with it being converted into transit center right now is it might not be the best place for a stop for the train. The dedicated transit corridor is on the other side of Brookside Blvd. It crosses 47th from SE to NW.

Switch over to the corridor at 47th, put both stops on the north side of 47th and use the KCATA ROW on the NE corner and for a major transit stop on that side.

Then come back with a more comprehensive SB stop upgrade after the plaza isn't nearly the terminus of the system. NB will have a lot more ridership until then.

I also predict 100x as many people in midtown would prefer a stop next to the current park than to give up the tennis courts for something and need to cross the street to go to the park

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by Highlander » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:15 pm

flyingember wrote:The major problem I see with it being converted into transit center right now is it might not be the best place for a stop for the train. The dedicated transit corridor is on the other side of Brookside Blvd. It crosses 47th from SE to NW.

Switch over to the corridor at 47th, put both stops on the north side of 47th and use the KCATA ROW on the NE corner and for a major transit stop on that side.

Then come back with a more comprehensive SB stop upgrade after the plaza isn't nearly the terminus of the system. NB will have a lot more ridership until then.

I also predict 100x as many people in midtown would prefer a stop next to the current park than to give up the tennis courts for something and need to cross the street to go to the park
I agree. But frankly, in a city with one streetcar and a few bus lines, there is no need to take out a city block occupied by tennis courts for a "transit center". I cannot think of a worse use for the property - a transit center in this case is a glorified bus stop. When we get into the real world of public transportation, then we can start talking transit centers on a bigger scale but right now, something of the scale Earthling is talking about is way beyond what is needed or required.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by earthling » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:18 am

^Well yes, a glorified bus stop is exactly what should be targeted. That's what TOD is all about. Can't think of a better use for the property that would serve public more broadly. It may take years to pull off, so timing with streetcar expansion is better than waiting years after streetcar (several years away in itself).

Imagine a small CVS/small market/coffee bar in place of the tennis center, especially since Plaza core lacks basic neighborhood amenities. Could potentially be at base of office/residential building too like 3rd/Grand transit center, Plaza Library would be even better relocated here. Downtown/Plaza streetcar riders/visitors also will use these services, and Plaza hotel guests likely to checkout streetcar given it's a free ride downtown. Imagine bikeshare expanded into Plaza neighborhoods/hotels and beefed up at the transit center. And also public bike racks for residents who use their own bikes to get to streetcar or other bus lines. This isn't some kind of overkill euphoria, it's a typical TOD function in large cities and Plaza streetcar stop tied with other bus lines will certainly become one of best spots that can pull this off. Given streetcar is free to ride, it has even broader appeal.

So again the bigger picture here is that the tennis center location is a primo spot that serves maybe 100 people a day at most, zero in bad weather. The Plaza streetcar stop no matter where exactly located will draws thousands a day to that area, especially weekends. JoCo buses already pass or terminate at Plaza as well as crosstown lines and Waldo/downtown MAX bus, and hopefully there will still be a N/S express bus whether down Main or Broadway. As metro transit improves, the Plaza will become one of regional transit centers.

There are dozens of ways to re-purpose the tennis center space that would serve far more public/visitors than what is there now, a fenced in walled garden - underutilized.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:45 pm

the main street rail TDD board of directors meets this week (1/31) to set the date for the final election.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:28 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:the main street rail TDD board of directors meets this week (1/31) to set the date for the final election.
The board voted to ask the Circuit Court for a mail-in election schedule that completes by June 2018. A detailed schedule will be available when the judge approves.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:49 pm

ICYMI - https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... ml?ana=twt

Hopefully the judge will approve the schedule soon. If so, the ballot application window would start at the end of February.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:22 am

The judge has ordered the final TDD election. Ballot application window opens Monday, March 5 and closes 5pm Tuesday, April 3. Ballots would be mailed Tuesday, May 1 and would be due 5pm Tuesday, June 12. Same process as last year's formation election. Check your voter registration NOW at kceb.org.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by beautyfromashes » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:31 pm

When will the neighborhood input meetings take place? I believe you said March earlier.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:39 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:When will the neighborhood input meetings take place? I believe you said March earlier.
A public meeting on the planning process -- not the TDD or funding approach -- will take place March or April.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by beautyfromashes » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:43 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
A public meeting on the planning process -- not the TDD or funding approach -- will take place March or April.
After the vote?

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by kcjak » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:50 pm

I can't find the info now, but someone in the Volker neighborhood discussion FB group shared some info that Sherry DeJanes had provided the West Plaza group. Basically encouraged residents to vote no in the next election so we wouldn't burden our neighbors within the taxing district that was set up unfairly, blah blah blah.

I was encouraged that most comments were anti-DeJanes.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by FangKC » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:08 pm

kcjak wrote:I can't find the info now, but someone in the Volker neighborhood discussion FB group shared some info that Sherry DeJanes had provided the West Plaza group. Basically encouraged residents to vote no in the next election so we wouldn't burden our neighbors within the taxing district that was set up unfairly, blah blah blah.

I was encouraged that most comments were anti-DeJanes.
Does anyone go to these meetings and follow DeJanes and point out how many taxes go to facilitating car traffic/parking, and that even taxpayers who don't drive pay them -- parking minimums that drive up the price of building housing, etc.? Maybe someone should round up a group of senior citizens, and disabled people, who don't drive cars, to recite stories of how lack of transit affects them, and how they would benefit from a free streetcar. Perhaps one articulate senior could explain how selfish people like DeJanes are when they deprive people without cars access to transit options.

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