Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Transportation topics in KC
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:44 am

JBmidtown wrote:
just kidding. But for real though, there has to be some alternative option to federal grants.
We need to get the state on board to fund more. The bus tax they fund almost died in recent years and the state house is now more Republican than it was then. So this means more suburban support for transit is needed to keep this tax around.

When 60% of the east side and 60% of the northland vote against things together it's hard to get big enough citywide taxes.

We need to start with a comprehensive bus system that isn't only downtown centric so we can grow citywide interest in transit in general.
We keep trying to build something we don't even have bus service for, a true north to south rail spine. Why haven't we done this with busses yet?

Not one bus from the northland goes south of 27th or east of downtown except the casino bus and I wouldn't say it serves the east side. Why would someone from Liberty ride the bus to the plaza if they can only get to within 20 blocks without changing service. It's supposed to be an express route. Even what's there isn't scaled right, we've never come back and tried to even serve new populations well. The Shoal Creek/Liberty line has seats for around 80 riders daily. There's around 60,000 nearby residents. There's no true E-W service across the northland like on the super busy 152 to connect Liberty to Tiffany Springs despite that the city keeps promoting that industrial district and adds tons of new homes to the corridor.

And it's not just the northland. There isn't good east side coverage into NKC with tens of thousands of current and potential jobs. To get from most of the east side to NKC is a two bus trip and then walking/biking on the far end. This is such a huge missed opportunity for urban renewal. I can't believe we haven't connected Indep Ave directly to every industrial area within easy reach and the Plaza. We had a vote to do this with rail and we haven't done it with a bus yet.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:41 pm

JBmidtown wrote:make Cerner and Sprint pay for the extensions.

just kidding. But for real though, there has to be some alternative option to federal grants.
There are options and they will be studied.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by beautyfromashes » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:56 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
There are options and they will be studied.
Just double the bill to the district residents. No one will notice.

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Bill Durban
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by Bill Durban » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:33 pm

They were saying on the news Sunday that Trump was advocating spending a trillion dollars on infrastructure, specifically mentioning transportation.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by grovester » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:08 pm

Paul Ryan begs to differ.

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Bill Durban
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by Bill Durban » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:24 pm

I'm sure they threw it out there just for conversation.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:57 am

DaveKCMO wrote:
JBmidtown wrote:make Cerner and Sprint pay for the extensions.

just kidding. But for real though, there has to be some alternative option to federal grants.
There are options and they will be studied.
Needing to do yet another study around money sources when this is the fourth rail funding election in 5 years and sixth in a little over a decade isn't confidence building.

This is a sign no one has any idea how to replace federal funding. These options would have been studied for the 2014 election at least. What did that study say about non-federal funding? I seriously doubt the city planned to do nothing if it didn't get a federal grant.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by UrbanKC » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:31 am

Bill Durban wrote:They were saying on the news Sunday that Trump was advocating spending a trillion dollars on infrastructure, specifically mentioning transportation.
From what I've read and heard, Trump has talked less about spending tons of federal/tax money on infrastructure, but rather on working with corporations to get them to do infrastructure work. More of a focus on privatization of infrastructure work. Sounds somewhat similar to Roosevelt's New Deal and Public Works' partnership with private companies.

So essentially the "trillion dollars" isn't a trillion tax dollars or a trillion dollars from federal budget, but rather a total amount of combined corporate/federal expenditure.

Though who knows how true that actually is, or how well it reflects what actually will happen...

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by WSPanic » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:37 am

UrbanKC wrote:
Bill Durban wrote:They were saying on the news Sunday that Trump was advocating spending a trillion dollars on infrastructure, specifically mentioning transportation.
From what I've read and heard, Trump has talked less about spending tons of federal/tax money on infrastructure, but rather on working with corporations to get them to do infrastructure work. More of a focus on privatization of infrastructure work. Sounds somewhat similar to Roosevelt's New Deal and Public Works' partnership with private companies.

So essentially the "trillion dollars" isn't a trillion tax dollars or a trillion dollars from federal budget, but rather a total amount of combined corporate/federal expenditure.

Though who knows how true that actually is, or how well it reflects what actually will happen...
Except for the federal spending that went along with it - which would be close to $50 trillion in today's dollars from '33-'40.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by aknowledgeableperson » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:44 pm

Bill Durban wrote:They were saying on the news Sunday that Trump was advocating spending a trillion dollars on infrastructure, specifically mentioning transportation.

Most of what he has talked about is repairing or replacing current infrastructure. Believe he has implied projects like streetcar lines are for locals.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by miz.jordan17 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:42 pm

Just excited thinking about the extension, so I was wondering: what are the odds of the streetcar being (almost) completely center running and going closer to its max speed on the rest of Main? This would definitely make it more practical and efficient. Also, have any grocery stores solicited information about spots in midtown?

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by smh » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:08 pm

miz.jordan17 wrote:Just excited thinking about the extension, so I was wondering: what are the odds of the streetcar being (almost) completely center running and going closer to its max speed on the rest of Main? This would definitely make it more practical and efficient. Also, have any grocery stores solicited information about spots in midtown?
I am hoping for center running--it makes a lot of sense for a variety of reasons. There was word awhile back that MAC was interested in buying the Burger King at Armour and Main and replacing it with a mixed-use development with a grocery anchor. That doesn't seem to have come to fruition, and I don't know that it was ever more than a rumor. Supposedly there is still talk of apartments anchored by a grocery at 27th/Troost.

Time will tell I suppose.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by KCtoBrooklyn » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:45 pm

smh wrote: There was word awhile back that MAC was interested in buying the Burger King at Armour and Main and replacing it with a mixed-use development with a grocery anchor. That doesn't seem to have come to fruition, and I don't know that it was ever more than a rumor.
Interesting. That would be fantastic.

I never heard anything about that. Do you have any more details?
smh wrote: Supposedly there is still talk of apartments anchored by a grocery at 27th/Troost.
I think that was supposed to be more of a small market than a full-fledged grocery. I believe the development is still in the works, although I think the market is just a possible tenant.

I'm still disappointed the original plans for the full-service super market at that location fell through. I noticed the Show Warehouse building at 3230 Troost is for sale. It looks like it could be a good building for a grocery (looks like it could have been one at some point). If the Mac redevelopment of Armour and Troost moves forwards, maybe something good will happen with this building:

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/20060711 ... s-City-MO/

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:56 pm

I like center running.

It's six lanes today. I would like to see a four lane design with protected bike lanes on the outside. Should be enough width to put this in without encroaching on sidewalks.
Where there's no stop can look at bike lanes and one lane of full time parking.

By going with four lanes there's the option to do dedicated lanes for the train.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by kcjak » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:16 pm

I'm no engineer, but is it possible to run a single track that could be used by both northbound and southbound streetcars, and split into two sets of tracks at loading platforms? Assuming running times could be coordinated well enough (HA!), the streetcars would only 'pass' one another when they split for loading passengers.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by beautyfromashes » Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:09 pm

Would this eliminate street parking along Main or cut car lanes to one each way?

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:03 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:Would this eliminate street parking along Main or cut car lanes to one each way?
if we take away the current part time parking lanes that aren't contiguous I bet it would be possible to have parking nearly along the entire 20-some block length and have it so it doesn't go away at 4pm, so people can park on street on their way home. Edge running has the parking line issues but can share stops with busses while center running wouldn't. Center running of course causes issues with left turns into garages/lots but this is easily solved with allowing uturns at lights. (Nola does this) And center running would affect cars the least. No worries about hitting a train making a turn onto a street because you always go right where the train will never be. Center stops also have the smallest impact to go twice as long, no worrying about curb cuts or driveways.

It just seems like it has the most wins for the most people, since no design would not come with some drawback.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:45 am

kcjak wrote:I'm no engineer, but is it possible to run a single track that could be used by both northbound and southbound streetcars, and split into two sets of tracks at loading platforms? Assuming running times could be coordinated well enough (HA!), the streetcars would only 'pass' one another when they split for loading passengers.
Possible, but you would permanently limit frequency and you'd probably have to separate the track from traffic.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by Eon Blue » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:25 am

Think about how often the vehicles on the starter line arrive at the same station going NB/SB at the same time.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by chingon » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:39 pm

The only experience I have with shared pathway is the EmX in Eugene, which seems to function fine (though college towns and Oregon seem to have more leeway with transit service expectations than we do), but it would seem like a shared track could really be a nightmare if the track got temporarily blocked. More so than a split track, I mean.

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