Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Transportation topics in KC
earthling
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3898
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby earthling » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:56 am

Am indifferent if streetcar runs down Main or Broadway but would like to see MAX moved to Bway if streetcar runs along Main through Midtown and then run a local bus down Main.

The pro running down Main through midtown is that it's obviously a natural extension along Main through downtown to UMKC. But Main through Midtown is a main drag with far more rush hour car traffic compared to Broadway so streetcar cutting over to Bway may make more sense. As a bus rider, to me the only major difference between bus and streetcar is that streetcar will encourage more intimate pedestrian scale TOD and Broadway through Midtown is more conducive to that than Main. Pros and cons to either, am indifferent in the end.

chingon
Hotel President
Hotel President
Posts: 3313
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:47 pm
Location: South Plaza

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby chingon » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:42 am

flyingember wrote:I would rather take it down to UMKC, turn onto Volker and end this segment at Troost. Having a direct bus transfer at the MAX line would be so much more valuable. It will do help with confidence in that corridor and could help get federal funding since it's more transit centric.

And if you look at the distances a detour down Westport Rd is equal to about half that distance and a small segment on Brookside Blvd from Volker to 51st is about another third.

I never fully understood why we would take the train through a low density residential neighborhood over Troost if the goal is redevelopment.

It also drives the idea of providing access to jobs in the urban core from high need areas.

Main to Volker to Troost seems like it's has the greatest chance of improve the city.


Yes. I think I have mentioned before I think it would be a good idea to terminate an extension on Troost between UMKC and Rockhurst, either via Volker or via Cleaver (running past the museum). It not only connects to the Troost MAX for now, but would also set up a natural southward extension along Troost, which I feel is a better route than through Brookside. None of these ideas are really on the table, though.

That said, it's probably worth noting that the immediately neighborhoods south of the Plaza are not particularly low-density. In fact, if you subtract the UMKC landmass, South Plaza's density is about 8,000 ppsm, making it substantially higher than anywhere abutting the Troost corridor with the exception of S. Hyde Park and there is certainly very, very limited potential for any redevelopment or increased density along Volker.

mykn
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:33 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby mykn » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:13 am

I think Main could use the development brought on by streetcar more than Broadway. Broadway already is coming along quite well. But if it did ever switch over to Broadway from Main, I hope it's at Linwood for self serving reasons.

mean
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 10611
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 9:00 am
Location: Historic Northeast

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby mean » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:33 am

Deciding streetcar routing based on where you would like to see development instead of where people want to go is really stupid.

earthling
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3898
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby earthling » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:50 am

mean wrote:Deciding streetcar routing based on where you would like to see development instead of where people want to go is really stupid.


Overall effective transit is what matters, whether bus or streetcar. IMO the only major difference between bus and streetcar is the TOD that streetcar creates and is more effective on less car traffic'd streets than high traffic. Having ridden streetcars (and every form of transit) around the world, streetcar works best on streets that are closer to pedestrian scale than major traffic thoroughfares .

Broadway through Midtown has more destinations where people want to go (center of Westport, Plaza, Uptown Theatre district becoming a hot spot). I'm indifferent on Main vs Broadway but Main has such high volume of car traffic. There are still benefits to run it down Main, especially given Main could use more help than Broadway (and it's a straight shot). MAX already serves Main through Midtown so is covered.

flyingember
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5966
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby flyingember » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:43 pm

mean wrote:Deciding streetcar routing based on where you would like to see development instead of where people want to go is really stupid.


That's precisely why I picked Troost over Brookside Blvd. As the #1 transit corridor people clearly already want to travel along it. Main St MAX still doesn't go south of the plaza half the time.

I would like to see phase 2 cover the Main corridor to UMKC and then follow with phase 3 as covering Troost from downtown to at least 63rd.

Maybe build that 18th St line to Troost and finally 18th/Vine can not be an incentive sucking part of town

I think we should build to replace the top use bus lines before any other route. I like the idea of a line north but there's clearly other corridors which would benefit more in the near term.
Last edited by flyingember on Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
beautyfromashes
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3715
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby beautyfromashes » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:48 pm

mykn wrote:I think Main could use the development brought on by streetcar more than Broadway. Broadway already is coming along quite well. But if it did ever switch over to Broadway from Main, I hope it's at Linwood for self serving reasons.


I would think this would have to happen at Linwood instead of Westport Rd. There isn't enough space to make the turn at Westport and Main.

mykn
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:33 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby mykn » Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:54 pm

.
Last edited by mykn on Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 15613
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby DaveKCMO » Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:57 pm

sorry, kids. it's main street. you can talk about broadway all you want, but...
http://nextrailkc.com/main-street/

missingkc
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 715
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 7:16 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby missingkc » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:10 pm

Dave, I just tried to follow your nextrailkc link and symantec blocked it. Know of any problems with it?

User avatar
HalcyonKC
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:41 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby HalcyonKC » Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:44 pm

My computer's antivirus also blocked it, it came up with a malware warning page.

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 15613
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby DaveKCMO » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:39 pm

their webhosting has been problematic (hacked a couple of times), so that's probably why it's been flagged. my mac running chrome via google fiber throws no errors.

gfisch95
Parking Garage
Parking Garage
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:07 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby gfisch95 » Wed May 11, 2016 6:54 pm

As someone not at all in the know on these kind of things...

If this extension happens will Main St MAX stay where it is or will there be changes to where those busses run?

flyingember
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5966
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby flyingember » Wed May 11, 2016 8:35 pm

gfisch95 wrote:As someone not at all in the know on these kind of things...

If this extension happens will Main St MAX stay where it is or will there be changes to where those busses run?

The last thing I remember is the decision wasn't going to be made until the extension is going in.

You wouldn't move every bus to the train with a forced transfer if it couldn't hold the numbers due to demand, number of trains, etc. It needs to work as a system.

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 27638
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby KCPowercat » Wed May 11, 2016 9:39 pm

So have "peak" times been determined? When 3 vs. 2 trains running?

ULCajun
Pad site
Pad site
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:17 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby ULCajun » Fri May 13, 2016 10:18 am

After renting in downtown for the last 3+ years, we have bought a house a couple blocks off of 36th&Main...extending the streetcar went from high on my priority list to highest. Look forward to see what comes.

earthling
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3898
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby earthling » Fri May 13, 2016 10:28 am

In the meantime, you can take MAX, which runs often. And when streetcar is extended, free fare likely to go away.

flyingember
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5966
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby flyingember » Fri May 13, 2016 10:33 am

earthling wrote:And when streetcar is extended, free fare likely to go away.

What's your basis? Last thing I recall was Dave saying it was expected the to Plaza corridor would provide enough money to continue free service

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 15613
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby DaveKCMO » Fri May 13, 2016 10:42 am

the 2014 financing plan would have allowed for free fares. a subsequent plan would likely carry that forward, but it would be up to the community (via the Authority) to decide.

ULCajun
Pad site
Pad site
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:17 pm

Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Postby ULCajun » Fri May 13, 2016 11:11 am

earthling wrote:In the meantime, you can take MAX, which runs often. And when streetcar is extended, free fare likely to go away.


Actually took the MAX from onelight to westport for MotM, it wasn't that bad. $6 per trip for us could get a little expensive tho. cheaper than uber. We just won't use it enough to justify $100/mo. We will be 2.5 miles from work, we will bike it.


Return to “Kansas City Transportation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests