Generic ongoing KCATA thread

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earthling
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by earthling » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:38 pm

Took MAX from Plaza to a friend's place in River Market Friday before 6pm. Even though they were running extra buses for the tournament (on top of existing 10 minute runs), the bus coming from Waldo/Bside was already standing room only by the time hitting Plaza. Up to 20 people were waiting at some stops along the way - driver passed up stops unless others getting off. Was also clear that many were using the River Market P&R lot to use MAX to get to P&L. Wasn't standing room heading home in evening but still busy.

Is great to see that more and more are catching on to using MAX, including visitors. On nice Sunday afternoons, MAX can be standing room at times because they only run it every 30 minutes instead of 15 min like Saturdays. What will it take to get KC ATA to bump Sundays to 15 min headways on Orange line?

BTW, here is a city guide along MAX line I put together a while ago. Have updated with Bikeshare stations and other info. Help promote using MAX and pass it along. Any suggestions for updates?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1238514/pics/bus/maxmwk.gif

Image

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by DaveKCMO » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:50 pm

as always, money. there's clearly demand for 15 minute headways at ALL times, as well as running every trip to UMKC and beyond. the problem is also the unique MAX branded buses -- you can't just add capacity with regular KCATA buses because because MAX buses look different.

btw, it's nice to see the bike share kiosks laid over the MAX map!

enough
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by enough » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:23 pm

for additional max service on weekends when the demand appears to be evident, the problem isn't the number of buses, but the cost of sending the drivers out in them. there are 28 max buses in all, and current sunday service on the two max routes requires fewer than a third of them.

i fully agree that additional service on sundays should be a high priority.

earthling
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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by earthling » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:43 pm

^Do it for the tourists. 30min is a long wait, where you feel like you rush an activity or have to plan. Maybe raise day pass to $5 on weekends? Locals won't care and visitors probably won't either.
DaveKCMO wrote: btw, it's nice to see the bike share kiosks laid over the MAX map!
So when can midtown/UMKC area be added? :)

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by TheSmokinPun » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:48 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:as always, money. there's clearly demand for 15 minute headways at ALL times, as well as running every trip to UMKC and beyond.
No kidding, as more and more of my fellow students at UMKC are discovering that they already pay for the bus, the lines to get on after class every 30 mins is getting ridiculous. Were about 12-15 deep on Tuesday at the UMKC stop at about 3:15, can only imagine it's getting worse earlier on in the day.

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by flyingember » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:05 am

TheSmokinPun wrote:
DaveKCMO wrote:as always, money. there's clearly demand for 15 minute headways at ALL times, as well as running every trip to UMKC and beyond.
No kidding, as more and more of my fellow students at UMKC are discovering that they already pay for the bus, the lines to get on after class every 30 mins is getting ridiculous. Were about 12-15 deep on Tuesday at the UMKC stop at about 3:15, can only imagine it's getting worse earlier on in the day.
I bet around 3pm is the busiest in the afternoon for UMKC
1pm and 2pm classes are popular and 3pm is about the time one needs to leave to go to an evening job.

When i worked at hyvee the 4pm shift was a heavy arrival time. restaurants would be similarly timed.


This is yet another fact to use for phase 2 streetcar expansion. Show how UMKC already supports transit. Bring them onboard as an official supporter if nothing else.

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by earthling » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:17 am

Of all improvements that could be made to this line, the easiest/best bang for buck is probably to run every MAX Orange bus to UMKC rather than Plaza (as opposed to every other bus that goes past Plaza to Waldo). It shouldn't cost much more to run all buses an extra 2 stops. Is not like it needs extra drivers. With Whole Foods coming to UMKC stop, even more reason.

While I am in general for streetcar to UMKC, it likely won't improve on MAX for those who already ride bus. It will be for those reluctant to ride bus.

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by DaveKCMO » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:25 am

earthling wrote:While I am in general for streetcar to UMKC, it likely won't improve on MAX for those who already ride bus. It will be for those reluctant to ride bus.
never underestimate the appeal of ride quality.

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by TheSmokinPun » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:52 am

DaveKCMO wrote:
earthling wrote:While I am in general for streetcar to UMKC, it likely won't improve on MAX for those who already ride bus. It will be for those reluctant to ride bus.
never underestimate the appeal of ride quality.
My sister and variety of friends that I have on campus won't be caught dead riding the dangerous bus, where people are often beaten to death apparently, but all have went crazy over the streetcar. I've given up trying to explain the benefits of BRT and the MAX to them.

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by earthling » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:28 am

Will leave that discussion to the streetcar thread but in the meantime, what would it take to get MAX Orange to run every bus to UMKC rather than every other bus?

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by flyingember » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:34 am

earthling wrote:Will leave that discussion to the streetcar thread but in the meantime, what would it take to get MAX Orange to run every bus to UMKC rather than every other bus?
doubtless more operations funding

there's the whole sidetrack for the ordinance that only funds capital improvements so there's not enough focus on the cost of service

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by DaveKCMO » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:43 am

earthling wrote:Will leave that discussion to the streetcar thread but in the meantime, what would it take to get MAX Orange to run every bus to UMKC rather than every other bus?
probably should have lobbied for that during phase 1 of the comprehensive service analysis. although there was quite a bit of "straighten the MAX downtown" feedback, yet nothing happened there. gotta please those brooksiders by dropping them off at every front door!

so, yeah, money will always be an issue unless you can get UMKC to chime in on the deal. their pass agreement has been a very good deal for KCATA, so it's likely they could have that kind of influence.

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by flyingember » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:52 am

TheSmokinPun wrote:
DaveKCMO wrote:
earthling wrote:While I am in general for streetcar to UMKC, it likely won't improve on MAX for those who already ride bus. It will be for those reluctant to ride bus.
never underestimate the appeal of ride quality.
My sister and variety of friends that I have on campus won't be caught dead riding the dangerous bus, where people are often beaten to death apparently, but all have went crazy over the streetcar. I've given up trying to explain the benefits of BRT and the MAX to them.
perceived value is a strong motivator over logic

it's how the hyvee gas discount gets used. I find that in most cases using the program costs me more than not when looking at the cost of grocery + gas but there's still people that work off perceived value and not reality.

gas card example: saltine crackers were $1.99 with 1 cent off (20 cents max) = $1.79. store brand crackers were $1.49. The quality of the store brand saltines is near equal to the name brand

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by earthling » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:02 pm

It can't happen if no one at least tries. Seems like the push should come from UMKC given UMKC essentially partly funds the ATA now.

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by flyingember » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:31 pm

saw this earlier but it's on the city's legislative meeting for today

http://cityclerk.kcmo.org/LiveWeb/Docum ... sQbXiUxiGl
Authorizing the TIGER North Oak Corridor Bus Stop Improvement Project; estimating revenue in the amount of $150,000.00 in the ARRA Stimulus Fund; appropriating that amount to the North Oak Corridor Bus Stop Improvement account; designating requisitioning authority; and recognizing an emergency.
the corridor has zero bus shelters except for at 10th Ave right at the foot of the HOA bridge.

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by enough » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:41 pm

earthling wrote:...but in the meantime, what would it take to get MAX Orange to run every bus to UMKC rather than every other bus?
i agree. during the csa i asked the ata people about extending the orange line to umkc and they said they tried hard but couldn't make it work. (it's more complicated than just telling the drivers to go a little farther. there are implications for keeping the "long trips" in sync with the "short trips" without adding a whole lot of idle time at layover points. or something like that.)

for now, go to the downtown service restructuring meeting at the design center thursday evening and raise that issue. no, the max route isn't on their agenda, but it's an opportunity to make the point about going to umkc -- that and the excessive delays that result from having the route wind around downtown.

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by kboish » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:45 pm

enough wrote:
earthling wrote:...but in the meantime, what would it take to get MAX Orange to run every bus to UMKC rather than every other bus?
i agree. during the csa i asked the ata people about extending the orange line to umkc and they said they tried hard but couldn't make it work. (it's more complicated than just telling the drivers to go a little farther. there are implications for keeping the "long trips" in sync with the "short trips" without adding a whole lot of idle time at layover points. or something like that.)

for now, go to the downtown service restructuring meeting at the design center thursday evening and raise that issue. no, the max route isn't on their agenda, but it's an opportunity to make the point about going to umkc -- that and the excessive delays that result from having the route wind around downtown.
The max line is on their agenda. From the downtown councils website:
You are invited to provide input to the Kansas City Area Transportation Authority, as it begins to examine a wide range of potential improvements for Downtown bus service and circulation.

The KCATA’s public forum is set for 5:30–7:30 p.m. Thursday, April 4 at the Kansas City Design Center, 1018 Baltimore.

Planning efforts will focus on:

Short-term route changes to simplify and integrate downtown bus and MAX service with the planned streetcar on
Main.

Potential longer-term improvements such as new transit centers, superstops, a transit mall, transit emphasis
corridors and a variety of transit priority measures to best support downtown activities and development.

Make plans to attend next Thursday and share your ideas.

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by DaveKCMO » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:48 pm

i love superstops.

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by smh » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:55 pm

Unfortunately I'll have to miss the meeting on Thursday. However, here are a couple of my thoughts:

1. Straighten Main MAX. Somehow.

2. Eliminate 10th & Main transit center. Replace it with a transit corridor (not a transit mall) running along Grand/Main, etc. your choice. Most buses would make stops along this corridor within a block or so of each other eliminating the need for a transit center where everyone gathers to loiter. Spread the loitering out, eliminate some of the transit center related issues.

3. Develop a frequent network of overlapping downtown lines between the Loop and CC/Union Station. It is nearly true that you can catch a bus w/in 5 minutes of needing one if you're travelling from the Loop to Crown Center/Union Station or vice versa. This fact should be marketed. Maps and brochures should show a bold line with information to indicate any bus on this street moves you within this frequent corridor. And, of course, the ATA ought to adjust bus schedules every so slightly to ensure the existence of this frequent network.

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Re: Generic ongoing KCATA thread

Post by enough » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:24 pm

good points. also, where does one go out in the real world to find an actual map of bus routes?

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