Nov. 4th, how are you voting?

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:02 pm

Well Nov. 4th is the transit vote (pretty much)....so how will you vote?

Here is a sample vote:
http://www.kceb.org/1103sb.htm

Feel free to discuss your position.

Just real quick

Question #1 is the ATA/city proposal

Question #3 is the Chastain/light rail proposal.

Good2Great · Post by **Good2Great** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:48 pm

All current predictions have it as a near toss up.

Post by **dangerboy** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:44 pm

The Star reports they are both polling at just over 50%, but it will depend on turn out. Support is high in the south, but very low in the north - so it will depend on the voter turnout between the two sides.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 4:43 pm

So what if both pass?

What if Chastain's plan passes and it turns out to be a financial mess?

Post by **dangerboy** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:11 pm

If they both pass, then the one with the most votes becomes law.

I'd like to see Chastain's plan pass just for the sheer delight of freaking out the elected officials and sending them a message they doing a good job with the current system. Kinda like when Seattle passed an initiative petition for monorails over the objections of the city and most politicians.

But realistically, if Chatain's plan wins then the city and/or ATA will probably spend several years in court trying to get it thrown out. Even if it passes I bet it has less than 50% chance of actually getting built.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:21 pm

There are also some legal prolems with Chastains proposal, if I remember correctly. He also relies too much on a big chunk of federal money, which even the feds say is not available now. If it passes, or gets close to passing, perhaps the leaders will realize that the citizens are tired of the things are now.

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:12 pm

I wish I could vote in KCMO, I'd vote for both. I guess I'll jus' have to sit back and watch closely.

Good2Great · Post by **Good2Great** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:26 am

dangerboy wrote: Even if it passes I bet it has less than 50% chance of actually getting built.

Duh! The dude's a kook!

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:46 am

that's my problem with Clay's plan even though I'll probably vote for both.....

If one piece of his plan holds up something simple like improving bus service, then his plan is a disservice (like most of the others)

why doesn't he ever put his plan out there on a website or something?

Good2Great · Post by **Good2Great** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 10:00 am

That would require effort. He's a half-baked idea machine. I doubt he has the drive or ability to actually be around for the implementation of any plan.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 10:17 am

He needs to realize he has done more than anything else to discourage light rail in this city.

Post by **bahua** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:01 am

I don't dislike his proposal that much, except that it'll fail financially, but then again, so will(and does) the ATA.

QueSi2Opie · Post by **QueSi2Opie** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:15 pm

Chastain has renovated 22 homes in Midtown and has an electrical engineering degree, so he's not all that bad. He jus' doesn't want to completely give up on Kansas City.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:22 pm

I think his heart is in the right place but he has to realize that his name is now tied with hairbrained ideas in this city....help out behind the scenes to get something done if he really wants to see rail in this city.....actually all he wants to see is his face on tv and pick up a few chick's numbers from his petitions.

TheDude · Post by **TheDude** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:44 pm

G2G, watch what you say about "the dude"; having said that, i am voting for CLAY baby!! Time to shake up the system. (bty, has anyone read the Pitch article on ATA? you think i am going to vote to pour more money in that one horse operation?)

You say you want a revolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

You say you got a real solution
Well you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

You say you'll change the constitution
Well you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

Post by **dangerboy** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:57 pm

Also on the ballot is the "Clay Petition Amendment" to the city charter. Question 4 tightens the requirements for an initiative petition and makes it more difficult to get one on the ballot. Petitioners would have to be city residents, and would have to get a minimum number of signatures in four of the six city council districts.

This is in direct response to Clay, who now lives out of state but gather enough signatures just within the fourth district, by petitioning mainly at Marsh's Sunfresh in Westport and Price Chopper in Brookside.

kcteen · Post by **kcteen** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 8:31 pm

STOP TALKING ABOUT CLAY CHASTAIN

seriously

TALK ABOUT THE FREAKING BALLOTT PROPOSAL, NOT THE MAN

you see, this is what really upsets me. Yeah, its clay chastain and he is annoying. Do you really think that the ATA proposal will get every cent and be able to do everything THEY claim? Hell no. Everybody (esp. the city) overestimates. It's not unique to Mr Chastain, seriously people.

I have faith some of his stuff will at least get done, and to me, that would be better than appeasing the ATA.

The lightrail/streetcar proposal ("Clays" Plan) should not judged based upon the guy who spearheaded it. Remember there are thousands of people in his little entourage and by just brushing the proposal off as a Chastain folly, then you are undermining them as well. Remember they needed a lot of registered voters to petition it onto the ballot. Show some respect.

Since i'm living now in NC, i cant vote. But, if i did, I'd vote for both of them.

And yes, Chastian is a moron. Let's move on. He probably has hurt lightrail. But, that doesnt mean that his plan isnt worth voting for. If we waited till something truely "perfect" came around then, wait, nothing ever will. Point being...please dont judge his proposal by saying "No to chastain". I personally feel, and I dont think i'm alone, that the more we wait the harder it will be to get ANYTHING started.

Thanks. ** end rant**

(and Sorry, long day)
KcTeen

Brooksider · Post by **Brooksider** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 10:23 pm

I haven't liked any of Chastain's ideas 100% but I vote for all of them. I believe in light rail and at least he comes to the table with an idea. I think he at least keeps the thought of rail in our future in people's minds.

Post by **mean** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:34 pm

I will say it again, and I'm sure it won't be the last time:

Light rail sucks! SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS!

Seriously. It is a waste of money, and it sucks at the tax teat forever -- it will never be able to pay for itself. Not to mention that once you invest all that money in track and trains and infrastructure, there is no going back. There is no exchanging for a better system: you are stuck with it forever.

Better systems exist today, let's build one of those instead! Please, people! Use your heads!

ignatius · Post by **ignatius** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:12 pm

Light rail is a massive money muncher. It would cost $35K per projected rider to build/maintain over 20 years with the previous city plan. With Chastains plan, it is even worse. That's absolutely ridiculous. I wish I had the numbers for St. Louis light rail but even with higher than expected ridership, their light rail system is prohibitively expensive per rider for what they get. The cost/benefit for light rail in most cities is awful. There are far better things to put tax dollars towards.

Rapid bus and a broad local bus feeder system is the way to go. Utilizing the existing heavy rail lines is more feasible than light rail but with so much freight traffic, it will be difficult to pull off.

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