KC area Transit master plan LIGHT RAIL OR BUST!

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GRID
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KC area Transit master plan LIGHT RAIL OR BUST!

Postby GRID » Tue May 27, 2008 3:17 pm

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Well, here goes, this is my idea of a master planned long range transit overhaul for the KC area.  Let me know what you think and please discuss this.  I plan on sending this on to mayor Funkhouser and others and see what kind of feedback I get.

This could all be funded with a permanent ½ or 1 cent sales tax across the region.  But we all know that won’t be easy so here are some ways to get it going and build it out.

Priority light rail line.  This is a starter line that is much more than a starter line.  It will serve the massive commuting population along I-70 to the east, the eastside of KCMO, the stadium complex and the entire RiverCrownPlaza urban core and get all the way beyond Briarcliff in the Northland to the Platte County line.  This line can be funded with a Jackson and Clay county tax (nearly 1 million people) and could include major upgrades to express bus service and the construction of park and rides for express bus routes to Lee’s Summit, Raytown, Liberty, Gladstone, SKC and Grandview.  This should be our first step to “catch up” and will be the only real way to get a public vote and federal/state funding.  A Clay/Jackson tax should be no more than the total tax to be levied across the area.  So to build out the system, no county should have to be taxed twice.  If Clay and Jackson pass this bi-county system, they should not have to be asked to put into a regional or bistate tax unless this is a short term tax or they only have to pass ¼ cent while the rest of the metro has to pass a ½ or ¾ cent tax.  You have to keep this fair or the system will never be expanded.

This “starter line” is a light rail route that will use existing rail right of way east of I-470 and new light rail from the I-470 via Hwy40, Blue Parkway, Volker and Main Street.  This line will go a long way in redeveloping the entire Highway 40, and Blue Parkway corridors.  It will be the most expensive of any transit line built in KC, but it will be the most important and needs to be done right.  It can be expanded easily to the east along the rail right of way.

There will be a major park and ride / transfer facility at what is now the far SE parking lot of the Truman Sports Complex where buses will feed into the light rail line and the future Lee’s Summit light rail extension along the existing right of way to the southeast.

Other extensions to light rail would include Platte County to KCI (existing or new terminal) via 169 and Waukomis where there is already some transit right of way so most of the line could be in its own right of way to keep the speeds up.  The line would serve the booming Tiffany Springs corridor and Platte County commuters.

The extension to the south could be built along the trolley track trail and then pick up the existing rail right of way in the Bendix area an head into SKC and Grandview.  In the interim , BRT and or street cars could be used in parts of this corridor such as the Plaza to Waldo area.

BRT lines with more advanced technology and vehicles would be built along State Ave and US-24 as well as Metcalf, Shawnee Mission Parkway, North Oak, Troost/State Line and along I-35 to Liberty.

Street car line connectors could be built to connect major neighborhoods.  I propose a UMKC-Westport via plaza route and Westside to Eastside route and something in the downtown loop for an east-west connection.  These are not that expensive to build and would add a lot of value to the areas they are built in.

Commuter rail, and if possible light rail, could be built along I-35 in Johnson County to upgrade the proposed shoulder BRT line for the I-35 corridor.

All light rail or commuter rail would require new track to be built.  Parking structures/lots and bike facilities would be built at all major stations and transfer facilities, the general fixed route bus system would be tripled in size and frequency.

This would also abolish the JO and ATA and create a new Mid America TRANSIT (MAT) government.  The system would continue to use the existing Jo and ATA bus barns and offices, but new facilities would be built in the northland and eastern Jackson county so all buses don’t have to drive clear to the existing barns.

I’m going to throw out 1.5 billion for the “starter” line which would include expanded buses and BRT in Clay and Jackson only.  For the entire MO side built out, I would guess 2-3 billion and for the bistate area, who knows...

This is my “dream” plan.  If I were planning for KC’s transit system for next 50-100 years, this is what it would look like and it could be upgraded as needed, (BRT to LRT etc).

This is what we should be shooting for and it can be done.  Ask Denver and many other towns.
Last edited by GRID on Wed May 28, 2008 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My KC area Transit master plan

Postby kcjak » Tue May 27, 2008 3:43 pm

Nice ideas!  Have you given any consideration to some sort of BRT that connects suburban locations like an JoCo rail station to maybe an upcoming Bannister development?  I love the vision of instersecting BRT lines on your dream system.  On the other hand, do you think places like Gladstone and Liberty being only served by BRT would result in fewer Clay county votes for a regional line?  Just wondering...

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Re: My KC area Transit master plan

Postby GRID » Tue May 27, 2008 4:07 pm

kcjak wrote:Nice ideas!  Have you given any consideration to some sort of BRT that connects suburban locations like an JoCo rail station to maybe an upcoming Bannister development?  I love the vision of instersecting BRT lines on your dream system.  On the other hand, do you think places like Gladstone and Liberty being only served by BRT would result in fewer Clay county votes for a regional line?  Just wondering...


Well, Clay County passed the Chastain tax and his proposal barley touched Clay County.  I think Clay County will back a good plan with ease.  I don’t see a problem with not giving everybody light rail.  I would take a decent express bus with decent frequency and parking facilities just as much as a train when it comes to commuting.    In Denver, when RTA eliminated several suburban express routes after the new TREX line opened, people threw a fit because the buses were quicker and more convenient.  People just want transit options and right now, they have little to none.  The I-35 (Clay County) corridor doesn’t justify light rail, not even close.

As far as the JoCo to Bannister, I think ideas like what you say are very important, but they only work if you have a comprehensive transit system where you can use major transit centers to make connections like that.  You have to have a critical mass of need to have “suburb to suburb” transit work, but yea, it definitely could work.

BTW, I forgot to include Lawrence on that map.  Lawrence is huge and should not only be well connected to JoCo, but also to urban KCMO.  I have taken two people to the P&L district recently on MAX for the first time.  Guess where the only place they have ever ridden a transit bus was before that?  The bus system in Lawrence.  People from large colleges are ready to ride transit if they have transit to ride.

Boulder has great bus service to downtown Denver.  There is even fixed RTA service from Downtown Denver to Colorado Springs.  Can you say Topeka/StJoe?  All it takes is vision.

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Re: My KC area Transit master plan

Postby phxcat » Tue May 27, 2008 7:01 pm

That looks pretty good, though I think that if you are throwing together a bi-state regional plan as it is, the BRT routes in Kansas need to be future LRT (or at least a vision to phase it in).  And I would take it along Johnson Drive through Mission instead of SM Parkway.  The visions for Mission and Metcalf could really blossom with light rail coming in, and I would think that JoCo riders would be much more likely to use LRT than BRT just based on the stigma of riding the bus vs riding light rail.  And, with gas prices going up, you probably can't over estimate ridership.

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Re: My KC area Transit master plan

Postby GRID » Tue May 27, 2008 9:30 pm

Why in the world would you run light rail down Johnson Drive?  Streetcars maybe, but light rail?  It would only add another 10-15 minutes plus to the ride from Olathe to the Plaza.

That would be just slow slow slow.  You gotta step back and look at the big picture.  Sure, it would be cute to have massive trains running down Johnson Drive I guess, but then they gotta get back south to get back en route to the plaza via SM Parkway.  I mean, do you want to be nostalgic or move people?  I think in this case, you would want to move people.

Neat idea, just isn't practical.

The other BRT lines could easily be upgraded to LRT, I do agree with that.  I was just showing a starting point.  I think LRT down 35 would work out just about as well as LRT down 25 south of Denver.  Perfectly.

But that cost money and KS would much rather spend that money on braiding ramps and building tunnels so people never have to weave on the interstate again.

At least Kdot is looking at the I-35 corridor though. Modot is acting like transit will never exist in KC.

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Re: My KC area Transit master plan

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Wed May 28, 2008 12:24 am

GRID wrote: I mean, do you want to be nostalgic or move people? 


With all of the discussions concerning BRT, light rail, commuter, etc many seem to forget that it is not just to move people but to move them quickly and be efficient about it.  Not picking on you (we have more agreement of this subject than you just might realize) but more on others who lose sight of what mass transit needs to accomplish in order to be successful.

True, I might not think like most on this board but I do believe I think like most of the general population of the metro.  Take your commuter from Lees' Summit to downtown or the Plaza.  By auto that commute may take 40 to 45 minutes one way and may cost $6 to $8 for gas.  How much time will that commuter be willing to give up in order to use public transportation that may likely cost anywhere from $3 to $5 per trip.  And that it is very likely that an auto will have to be used in Lees' Summit in order to get from house to transit stop.  And no matter the mode of transit from Lees' Summit to the work destination another form of transportation will likely be used.  Now factor in the cost of parking, if applicable, to the cost of gas.  Each individual is different but if you add 20 to 25 minutes to the commuting time by using mass transit it may be likely that many will say 'NO' to mass transit and the next car bought will be a more efficient commuting vehicle.  On the flip side of that, if you can have the same commute time or even reduce the time that commuter may be willing to pay $6 to $8 for the ride, or even up to $10.

Any rail plan that is outside the city core should be on its own right-of-way to allow for speed in order to maintain or reduce commuting times.  Once you reach the core that dedicated right-of-way becomes too expensive and/or destructive so it will have to use current streets.

GRID's idea of utilizing the 40 Highway corridor has the most potential.  The potential ridership is quite high plus the ability of having the close to the same commuting time is there.  It ties together downtown, the Plaza, the Sports Complex, plus the population of eastern Jackson County and beyond.  Not only that it opens up a huge area for development/redevelopment that will serve the county well.  And if it goes north of the river and eventually to the airport this will give the MO side much ammo in its economic competition with the KS side.

If the KS side does eventually sign on there would have to be a modification to GRID's plan.  Somehow one must tie together southern Jackson County, and even the eastern part, to Johnson County.
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Re: My KC area Transit master plan

Postby GRID » Wed May 28, 2008 2:28 am

aknowledgeableperson wrote:With all of the discussions concerning BRT, light rail, commuter, etc many seem to forget that it is not just to move people but to move them quickly and be efficient about it.  Not picking on you (we have more agreement of this subject than you just might realize) but more on others who lose sight of what mass transit needs to accomplish in order to be successful.

True, I might not think like most on this board but I do believe I think like most of the general population of the metro.  Take your commuter from Lees' Summit to downtown or the Plaza.  By auto that commute may take 40 to 45 minutes one way and may cost $6 to $8 for gas.  How much time will that commuter be willing to give up in order to use public transportation that may likely cost anywhere from $3 to $5 per trip.  And that it is very likely that an auto will have to be used in Lees' Summit in order to get from house to transit stop.  And no matter the mode of transit from Lees' Summit to the work destination another form of transportation will likely be used.  Now factor in the cost of parking, if applicable, to the cost of gas.  Each individual is different but if you add 20 to 25 minutes to the commuting time by using mass transit it may be likely that many will say 'NO' to mass transit and the next car bought will be a more efficient commuting vehicle.  On the flip side of that, if you can have the same commute time or even reduce the time that commuter may be willing to pay $6 to $8 for the ride, or even up to $10.

Any rail plan that is outside the city core should be on its own right-of-way to allow for speed in order to maintain or reduce commuting times.  Once you reach the core that dedicated right-of-way becomes too expensive and/or destructive so it will have to use current streets.

GRID's idea of utilizing the 40 Highway corridor has the most potential.  The potential ridership is quite high plus the ability of having the close to the same commuting time is there.  It ties together downtown, the Plaza, the Sports Complex, plus the population of eastern Jackson County and beyond.  Not only that it opens up a huge area for development/redevelopment that will serve the county well.  And if it goes north of the river and eventually to the airport this will give the MO side much ammo in its economic competition with the KS side.

If the KS side does eventually sign on there would have to be a modification to GRID's plan.  Somehow one must tie together southern Jackson County, and even the eastern part, to Johnson County.


pretty much agree with that post, that doesn't happen often akp :)

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Re: My KC area Transit master plan

Postby phxcat » Wed May 28, 2008 8:27 am

aknowledgeableperson wrote:With all of the discussions concerning BRT, light rail, commuter, etc many seem to forget that it is not just to move people but to move them quickly and be efficient about it.  Not picking on you (we have more agreement of this subject than you just might realize) but more on others who lose sight of what mass transit needs to accomplish in order to be successful.

True, I might not think like most on this board but I do believe I think like most of the general population of the metro.  Take your commuter from Lees' Summit to downtown or the Plaza.  By auto that commute may take 40 to 45 minutes one way and may cost $6 to $8 for gas.  How much time will that commuter be willing to give up in order to use public transportation that may likely cost anywhere from $3 to $5 per trip.  And that it is very likely that an auto will have to be used in Lees' Summit in order to get from house to transit stop.  And no matter the mode of transit from Lees' Summit to the work destination another form of transportation will likely be used.  Now factor in the cost of parking, if applicable, to the cost of gas.  Each individual is different but if you add 20 to 25 minutes to the commuting time by using mass transit it may be likely that many will say 'NO' to mass transit and the next car bought will be a more efficient commuting vehicle.  On the flip side of that, if you can have the same commute time or even reduce the time that commuter may be willing to pay $6 to $8 for the ride, or even up to $10.

Any rail plan that is outside the city core should be on its own right-of-way to allow for speed in order to maintain or reduce commuting times.  Once you reach the core that dedicated right-of-way becomes too expensive and/or destructive so it will have to use current streets.

GRID's idea of utilizing the 40 Highway corridor has the most potential.  The potential ridership is quite high plus the ability of having the close to the same commuting time is there.  It ties together downtown, the Plaza, the Sports Complex, plus the population of eastern Jackson County and beyond.  Not only that it opens up a huge area for development/redevelopment that will serve the county well.  And if it goes north of the river and eventually to the airport this will give the MO side much ammo in its economic competition with the KS side.

If the KS side does eventually sign on there would have to be a modification to GRID's plan.  Somehow one must tie together southern Jackson County, and even the eastern part, to Johnson County.


Because that is where the transit hub is planned.  If LRT has its own right of way (if it doesn't, then SM Parkway is a no brainer) then it shouldn't interfere with traffic on Johnson Drive and it would encourage TOD in a location that would be more susceptible to it, which is what I think you would want to do in JoCo.  If Kansas City is going to become a successful post cheap gas city, NE JoCo will be an integral part of the equation. 

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Re: My KC area Transit master plan

Postby shinatoo » Wed May 28, 2008 8:48 am

LOL, I love how light rail all the way to Blue Springs is priority one in your plan. Couldn't be because you live there, could it? It reminds me of  my light rial plan that ran the length of 63rd street when i lived in Raytown and worked in Mission.

Your plan is workable, but I would much rather lop off that Stadium to Blue Springs section and run it up to the Airport.

Also, why extend it to Odessa by 2025 and not Harrisonville or Liberty or Smithville?
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Re: My KC area Transit master plan

Postby GRID » Wed May 28, 2008 9:48 am

shinatoo wrote:LOL, I love how light rail all the way to Blue Springs is priority one in your plan. Couldn't be because you live there, could it? It reminds me of  my light rial plan that ran the length of 63rd street when i lived in Raytown and worked in Mission.

Your plan is workable, but I would much rather lop off that Stadium to Blue Springs section and run it up to the Airport.

Also, why extend it to Odessa by 2025 and not Harrisonville or Liberty or Smithville?


I won’t be living in Blue Springs by the time this in place.  As a matter of fact, I will be out of Blue Springs very soon.  The Lee’s Summit line could happen first too.  It would be cheaper since much more of it would use existing right of way.  My only recommendation is to quit using this right of way in the Leeds area and head west into the RCP corridor instead of going north into the east bottoms and blue valley industrial district.

This has nothing to do with where I live but where transit has the best opportunity to thrive according to my personal understandings of the demographics of the KC area and number crunching I have done to come up with these routes.  There is a commuting population of hundreds of thousands of people in eastern Jackson county.  There is not even 90k in all of Platte County.  Platte County has multiple routes into downtown, all expressways and none are very congested and the new Paseo Bridge will make things even better.  I don’t think light rail to KCI should be a priority at this time either.  Having said that.  LRT in Platte County and to KCI is a must in a built out regional transit system.  We have to build in a manner that we can easily extend the line to KCI in the near future.   But the bottom line is it’s all about the numbers.  There is extreme high demand for transit in east jax while it’s hard to fill the dozen parking spaces at the Boardwalk transit center at this time.

Here is my latest update with some modifications as people have requested.  I added in the express bus service along specific suburb to suburb corridors.  South JoCo to South JaCo, West JoCo to west WyCo and Clay to Platte.  These could be buses that would run along 470/435 for example and have pull offs on the interstate for quick access to park and ride facilities, bike trails etc.

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Re: My KC area Transit master plan

Postby staubio » Wed May 28, 2008 10:40 am

I think light rail to the airport is on so many people's wishlists because there isn't a good way to get to the airport via any transit option currently. Just give us a reliable, frequent bus option. It doesn't make sense to run rail for expensive miles across under-developed land just to say we got a train out there. Even in NYC, you have to take a bus from La Guardia.

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Re: My KC area Transit master plan

Postby GRID » Wed May 28, 2008 11:21 am

Well, I sent the email to funkhouser and many othes, we shall see....

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Re: KC area Transit master plan LIGHT RAIL OR BUST!

Postby shinatoo » Wed May 28, 2008 1:06 pm

I like your updated plan much better.

Now get me an express train from South Lee's summit to the airport. :)
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Re: My KC area Transit master plan

Postby KCMax » Wed May 28, 2008 1:29 pm

phxcat wrote:Because that is where the transit hub is planned.  If LRT has its own right of way (if it doesn't, then SM Parkway is a no brainer) then it shouldn't interfere with traffic on Johnson Drive and it would encourage TOD in a location that would be more susceptible to it, which is what I think you would want to do in JoCo.  If Kansas City is going to become a successful post cheap gas city, NE JoCo will be an integral part of the equation. 


I could be wrong, but I believe the transit hub was going to be at the East Gateway project, which is the intersection of SM Parkway and Johnson. I don't see why the rail can't run along SM Parkway, stopping at that project at the intersection of Johnson Drive/Roe Avenue. You could then walk all the way down Johnson Drive quite easily if you wanted.

I see what you're saying about development, but I also see GRID's point that speed for the rail and moving people around should be a higher priority. I think having a transit hub nearby will facilitate Johnson Drive development, regardless if the rail physically runs through the street or not.
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Re: KC area Transit master plan LIGHT RAIL OR BUST!

Postby GRID » Wed May 28, 2008 4:05 pm

Well, I am already getting some solid feedback, here is the letter I wrote...

To all of those that are interested in transit in KC, I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to discuss this master plan with anybody that will listen. I have been personally studying light rail in KC since the early 90’s. I was a major volunteer on the city backed plan a while back and worked with the plan that Cleaver killed as well.
Please look over the attached map and think about the possibilities. This is much more in line with what other cities are doing such as Denver and St Louis. For a city our size, we should not even be looking at commuter rail. We can either save our money and build a nice bus system or we can spend some money and do it right and build a high quality light rail / BRT system. Commuter rail in KC is simply a waste of time and money. It won’t move enough people, it won’t create any sort of redevelopment opportunities and the KC area just isn’t large enough or congested enough to warrant commuter rail. KC has plenty of railroad right of ways, but they don’t enter the urban core in a way that makes it worthwhile. We need to use this right of way “combined with” building new right of way to create a first class rail transit system.
My proposed starter line would be ready to expand to KCI, Independence, Lee’s Summit and South KC. It would travel main street in dedicated right of ways and jump into higher speed right of ways once it crosses the river or heads into the east side.
It would terminate at the Truman Sports Complex and use some existing rail right of way through the old Leeds industrial district and give that area new life. Future extensions to the east would then either use the existing right of way to Lee’s Summit or be a part of a major upgrade to the I-70 / US-40 corridors. Both of these extensions would give tens of thousands of suburbanites a chance to use transit to do everything from commuting to attending a Royals game to going to the plaza or downtown events and even getting to KCI airport. This line would also serve much of the eastside and the busy north south bus routes that would intersect it giving nearly all eastside residents easy access to the eastern suburbs, the central urban core and the northland.
The Truman Sports Complex could be used for a park and ride facility for downtown commuters or those that want to go to the Sprint Center or other events in the city and not have to worry about parking or driving. A large parking structure could be built in the lower parking lot near Blue Ridge.
This starter line could be funded by KCMO only or by Jackson County and Clay County so long as a major upgrade in bus service is also part of the starter line including better express routes to Liberty, Gladstone, Lee’s Summit, Raytown and Grandview.
I would also like to see some smaller streetcar routes connecting specific urban core neighborhoods in the first phase. A example of this would be a streetcar that runs from UMKC/Stowers through the Plaza and on to Westport. Another would be a line from 18th and Vine through the Crossroads and into the Westside. Others could include a streetcar route along 12th downtown and one along Armour in Midtown.
The rest of my plan is pretty self explanatory with future light rail and bus rapid transit lines covering the entire area that could be funded with a regional tax and once again, a vastly expanded fixed route bus system across the area.
Thank you for your time with this matter. I think this is the single most important issue facing metropolitan KC for the next several decades. If we don’t do this right, it could put this area in an economic disadvantage with our peers that we may never recover from.
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Re: My KC area Transit master plan

Postby GRID » Wed May 28, 2008 4:08 pm

KCMax wrote:I could be wrong, but I believe the transit hub was going to be at the East Gateway project, which is the intersection of SM Parkway and Johnson. I don't see why the rail can't run along SM Parkway, stopping at that project at the intersection of Johnson Drive/Roe Avenue. You could then walk all the way down Johnson Drive quite easily if you wanted.

I see what you're saying about development, but I also see GRID's point that speed for the rail and moving people around should be a higher priority. I think having a transit hub nearby will facilitate Johnson Drive development, regardless if the rail physically runs through the street or not.


Yes, that is exactly right kcmax (on the transit center location at the gateway).  Johson Dirve is not really that long of a street and honestly there is not much there.  I think if you really are looking out for the best interest of NE JoCO, you would want the line to cruise down SMP with a major stop at the gateway.  It's not a long walk to the shops in Mission etc.  LRT on Johnson Drive would be very slow.

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Re: KC area Transit master plan LIGHT RAIL OR BUST!

Postby loftguy » Wed May 28, 2008 4:14 pm

Go Grid!  Your earnest thought and time are appreciated. Though I don't have an original thought to offer to this discussion, I'm glad that you do.

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Re: KC area Transit master plan LIGHT RAIL OR BUST!

Postby GRID » Wed May 28, 2008 10:05 pm

loftguy wrote:Go Grid!  Your earnest thought and time are appreciated. Though I don't have an original thought to offer to this discussion, I'm glad that you do.


Thanks man, I still have the passion in me I guess. :)

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Re: KC area Transit master plan LIGHT RAIL OR BUST!

Postby rxlexi » Thu May 29, 2008 12:57 am

yeah go get 'em Grid.  I agree with just about every aspect of your plan, and I only wish someone such as yourself was involved in Funk's regional planning.  I'm sure there are many intelligent, passionate folks behind our light-rail efforts, but you (and DaveKCMO, from what it sounds like) really need to be a part of this process.  I would love to see half of what you're discussing implemented, and kudos on the thoughtful communication and colorful, readable maps!
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Re: KC area Transit master plan LIGHT RAIL OR BUST!

Postby KCBoom » Thu May 29, 2008 1:54 am

I do agree with 99.9% of GRID's layout and agree with 30% of Funk's plan.  What we (readers of this board and the community in general) need to realize is that Funkhouser obviously doesn't have the right people providing vision and logic to this process.  It is ultimately up to us to make this happen the right way.  The only way to do regional mass transit right is to get involved and force your thoughts into the inboxes of those "in charge".

What worries me most is that Clay Chastain's plan passed without much knowledge of the plan which we know was far less than perfect.  If we don't do something to get the right plan on the ballot now the same thing will happen again and we will be stuck with a shitty plan.  The difference is that the next plan that passess will not be repealed by the city council.

Again, I agree with GRID that this is the most important issue facing this metro area for the next 30+ years.  It is going to be hilaciously expensive, but it is also highly important to do this now and do it properly.  I will make no bones about it, I live in Eastern Jackson County and always will--it is where I was born and raised so I am biased.  However, we need an alternative mode of transporation to get from the suburbs to the city core and buses in any form are not acceptable.  There is no way in hell you could ever get me on a bus to shuttle me to a lightrail terminal.  We are going to need to, eventually, get lightrail as far into the suburbs as possible with several key park and ride garages.  I truly believe that we need to be looking at how the Washington, D.C. Metro system is organized and how it functions because it has similarities to K.C. in that it spans multiple state, county, and city borders.

I know from reading the posts on this board for several years that almost everyone on this board will think I am crazy for trying to cater to suburbia so heavily, but the cold hard fact is that K.C. will never be a densely populated metro area.  Just a moderately populated, highly sprawling metro and we need to deal with that fact.  Look, I am certainly no expert on mass transit, but it is clear to me that the only way that we can begin to pull this city/metro together is to push lightrail out as far as possible as quickly as possible to prevent any further sprawl in the coming 10-15 years with natural population growth.  For me the reality is that I would probably rarely ride on the starter system just because I live in Lee's Summit and work in Leawood, KS.  Under this commuting scenario lightrail will probably never be a possibility, but I guarantee that I would use it to go downtown for leisure, to The K, Worlds of Fun, Plaza, Zoo, etc. 
Last edited by KCBoom on Thu May 29, 2008 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.


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