Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Transportation topics in KC
Post Reply
User avatar
K.C.Highrise
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 944
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:24 pm

Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by K.C.Highrise »

Once they get light rail from the Plaza to the river they could expand it down Independence Ave to Independence. There would be lots of riders and it could be a catalist for cleaning up the area. Thoughts?
jlbomega
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2500
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:23 pm

Re: Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by jlbomega »

Any light rail line going east would probably go to the TSC.
User avatar
K.C.Highrise
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 944
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:24 pm

Re: Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by K.C.Highrise »

How many people would actually use that on a daily basis? I think Independence Ave would have MUCH more people riding it on a daily basis.
User avatar
Sportster
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 878
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:23 pm

Re: Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by Sportster »

The Avenue is a pretty heavily traveled route throughout most of the day. Rush hour is even more so. That and 23rd street are the two primary routes that go, relatively un-interrupted out to eastern Jack and points farther East. Truman Road goes through too many stoplights near Indep. Square.

The old Indep. Ave streetcar (the #24) used to cross the Northeast streetcar (#30) route at Woodland, then E. on Admiral to Grand. During this portion of the route, they traveled the same tracks. Today the #24 and the #30 bus do the same thing. 

The Avenue wouldn't be a bad idea for a metro-rail link to points East. For that matter, 9th or 12th wouldn't be bad either, then rejoining US 24 farther East on Winner Road.

Might warratn some exploration. Someone's gotta get those terms defined first. "Light Rail" / "Commuter Rail", that sort of thing.

I'm still curious as to why someone isn't using the KCTY lines that run from US out east through Sugar Creek, Indep. G-View and Lees Summit to the east and the line that parallels I-35 to the West as a commuter rail line. Seems to me those are the two most congested highways during rush hour.

Sportster
...then again, common sense takes a back seat to money
User avatar
GRID
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 17083
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:20 pm
Contact:

Re: Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by GRID »

jlbomega wrote: Any light rail line going east would probably go to the TSC.
You act like the sports complex is the only thing east of downtown.  There are hundreds of thousands of people east of the sports complex believe it or not.

I think you should serve the sports complex, but it makes little sense to terminate a line there.

I have always thought the line should start at the plaza end of the urban core line, then head east on volker to van brunt, past the stadiums, then follow 40 down to a major park and ride facility east of 470 someplace.

A line like that would serve a larger pool of suburban jackson county residents, the stadiums and the upper east side of KCMO, plus it would be accessible to much of Raytown and Indep via p&r lots or feeder bus lines.  Route 28, which is a busy and fast route would feed into the LRT.  This would also cause some serious interest in the entire US-40 corridor as well as the Blue Parkway corridor and the Van Brunt corridor while aslo serving the stadiums and suburban commuters as well as inner ring suburbs and downtown.

I think Indep ave would be better served with a fast street car.  That would be less intrusive to the corridor and you don't really need full blown LRT trains running down Indep Ave. 

I still don't think we need to spend the money to run massive trains down main at 25mph on city streets.  The corridor to eastern jax could have several corridors of dedicated R/W and speeds and capacity could justify larger and faster trains.

I would like to see frequencies high as well.  You can wait 10 minutes for a fast street car or 30 for a full blown light rail line which will run the same speed as the fast streetcars.
Last edited by GRID on Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
mykem
Alameda Tower
Alameda Tower
Posts: 1194
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:23 am

Re: Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by mykem »

I think having a street car down Independence Ave. would be a great idea. The area would need some cleaning up, but it would work.

I would run a line down Inde. ave all the way to 435 follow 435 to the TSC. Then from there I would continue a line down hwy 40 all the way to 7 hwy in Blue Springs.
advocrat
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:36 am

Re: Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by advocrat »

Someday, when our first spine is well underway and the City wakes up and see the value of the system and begins to expand, east-west lines will be great on Independence Avenue or Truman road, Linwood and Volker. Talk about a people moving system and a catalyst for development.
User avatar
K.C.Highrise
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 944
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:24 pm

Re: Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by K.C.Highrise »

^--- yeah that is what I was thinking
User avatar
bahua
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 10925
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:39 pm
Location: Out of Town
Contact:

Re: Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by bahua »

"Clean up?" What are you talking about? What about the area makes it unsuitable for mass transit? Neighborhoods being impoverished has never stopped them from filling the buses with riders.
trailerkid
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 11284
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:49 pm

Re: Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by trailerkid »

GRID wrote: I still don't think we need to spend the money to run massive trains down main at 25mph on city streets.  The corridor to eastern jax could have several corridors of dedicated R/W and speeds and capacity could justify larger and faster trains.

I would like to see frequencies high as well.  You can wait 10 minutes for a fast street car or 30 for a full blown light rail line which will run the same speed as the fast streetcars.
Cosign...

Turn the 24 into a MAX route with 15 minute frequencies better connecting downtown to Independence Square. I would also suggest the route depart from the City Market.

Sexing up the 24 route would encourage more people to live between downtown and Independence Square and better the connectivity of our many neighborhoods. I know I would take a second look at Independence knowing I could hop on a bus every 15 minutes to get to downtown restaurants, events or employment.
aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12625
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Re: Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

GRID wrote: I have always thought the line should start at the plaza end of the urban core line, then head east on volker to van brunt, past the stadiums, then follow 40 down to a major park and ride facility east of 470 someplace.

A line like that would serve a larger pool of suburban jackson county residents, the stadiums and the upper east side of KCMO, plus it would be accessible to much of Raytown and Indep via p&r lots or feeder bus lines.  Route 28, which is a busy and fast route would feed into the LRT.  This would also cause some serious interest in the entire US-40 corridor as well as the Blue Parkway corridor and the Van Brunt corridor while aslo serving the stadiums and suburban commuters as well as inner ring suburbs and downtown.
Great idea.  Makes much more sense than running alongside I-70.  Been up and down old 40 between the stadiums and east very much lately.  Redevelopment is needed in this area, especially around Noland Rd. 
I may be right.  I may be wrong.  But there is a lot of gray area in-between.
User avatar
tat2kc
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 4196
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:32 pm
Location: freighthouse district
Contact:

Re: Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by tat2kc »

the #24 is a pretty busy route as it is, a fast streetcar line would be awesome; it could terminate at the max stop at 3rd street with no problem.  And Independence Ave. is being cleaned up: new streetscape from the Paseo almost to Benton Blvd. The new streetscape is very nice.  I think it would be at least as busy as the proposed Troost route.  If you could ride a streetcar from the River Market to Independence square, it would be busy all the time.
Are you sure we're talking about the same God here, because yours sounds kind of like a dick.
Stockton
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 824
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:49 am
Location: KCMO
Contact:

Re: Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by Stockton »

Truman Road directly connects the center of the downtown area with Independence Square, which is also Independence's transit hub. It would be nice to have more direct, faster service connecting downtown and the Square all day long, which the #24 express only does for inward commuters during rush hour. The dense, congested, local service of Independence Av really slows down the trip. Besides, Truman Road needs something to spur some development and activity. Of course, it would be nice to have streetcars along both routes (Ind Av/Winner and Truman Rd) to the Square.

For those of you who suggest the service depart from the River Market. Uh, doesn't it make much more sense for it to depart from the center of downtown like the current #24 does? I don't really want to walk in the rain or snow to my connecting route downtown that doesn't serve the River Market. I doubt people commuting in want to either or having to make another, unnecessary transfer.

If anything, Independence may be cutting service/frequency. I saw an article just the other day about Independence struggling to pay for existing service.
trailerkid
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 11284
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:49 pm

Re: Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by trailerkid »

Stockton wrote: Truman Road directly connects the center of the downtown area with Independence Square, which is also Independence's transit hub. It would be nice to have more direct, faster service connecting downtown and the Square all day long, which the #24 express only does for inward commuters during rush hour. The dense, congested, local service of Independence Av really slows down the trip. Besides, Truman Road needs something to spur some development and activity. Of course, it would be nice to have streetcars along both routes (Ind Av/Winner and Truman Rd) to the Square.

For those of you who suggest the service depart from the River Market. Uh, doesn't it make much more sense for it to depart from the center of downtown like the current #24 does? I don't really want to walk in the rain or snow to my connecting route downtown that doesn't serve the River Market. I doubt people commuting in want to either or having to make another, unnecessary transfer.

If anything, Independence may be cutting service/frequency. I saw an article just the other day about Independence struggling to pay for existing service.
So you're saying we should run the line down Truman Road instead because there's less congestion, but the service would help build up the corridor at the same time? While we're at it why no move the MAX off of Main to the Paseo so all the those businesses and people don't get in the way of the bus. I have no problem with running an express route that hits downtown, Indpendence Square and points further west. There is definitely room for both.

River Market would easily connect to the Main Street MAX line. Additionally, the line would run almost perfectly linear until it gets to the Square instead of weaving throughout the downtown loop.
Stockton
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 824
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:49 am
Location: KCMO
Contact:

Re: Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by Stockton »

I guess what I'm advocating is an all-day express route of the #24 or a new Truman Rd route all together, similar to what exists currently for inward commuters during rush hour (#24 express), for people travelling to and from Independence and the Square since having to travel Independence Av (#24) slows down the trip quite a bit and is a bit out of the way. I don't believe Truman Rd currently has a route of its own. So a new route would provide better transit for the Truman corridor and at the same time provide a quicker, more direct route to get to and from Independence. There are people riding the #24 all day going downtown from the Square or vice versa that don't necessarily need to go out of the way on Independence Ave. I ride the #24 frequently between downtown and Independence.

My other thought is it would be nice to have stimulating rail directly between downtown and the Square for Truman Rd's development. But that's a long way off so I'll leave it alone.

As far as the weaving around downtown. The route (street car or bus) could easily turn up, say, Grand, and simply loop around a block. I think it's important to serve the center of downtown for reasons I've already said. Transferring buses can be a pain in the ass. There are already too many transfers necessary in our system.
Last edited by Stockton on Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
trailerkid
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 11284
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:49 pm

Re: Light Rail down Independence Ave.

Post by trailerkid »

Stockton wrote: I guess what I'm advocating is an all-day express route of the #24 or a new Truman Rd route all together, similar to what exists currently for inward commuters during rush hour (#24 express), for people travelling to and from Independence and the Square since having to travel Independence Av (#24) slows down the trip quite a bit and is a bit out of the way. I don't believe Truman Rd currently has a route of its own. So a new route would provide better transit for the Truman corridor and at the same time provide a quicker, more direct route to get to and from Independence. There are people riding the #24 all day going downtown from the Square or vice versa that don't necessarily need to go out of the way on Independence Ave. I ride the #24 frequently between downtown and Independence.
If you built a real BRT or street car system down Ind. Ave. it would be very efficient. We need a lot of express buses going around town to different areas, but that doesn't change the need for a traditional line across Independence Ave.
Post Reply