Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Transportation topics in KC
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KCMax
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Light Rail Routes in Other Cities

Post by KCMax »

I just wanted a reference for what other cities have done, to be a bit instructive in our discussions on light rail routes in Kansas City. I'm not advocating copying other cities, but perhaps learning from their examples.

Portland, Oregon
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San Diego
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Denver
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Minneapolis
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San Jose, CA
http://www.vta.org/schedules/SC_LRT_MAP_color.GIF

Pittsburgh, PA
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Buffalo, NY
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Houston, TX
http://www.ridemetro.org/pdf/routes/700-redline.pdf

St. Louis
http://www.metrostlouis.org/MetroBus/Ma ... LinkMR.pdf
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Re: Light Rail Routes in Other Cities

Post by 49r »

Dallas, TX
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Tacoma, WA
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Boston, MA (only the green line is light rail)
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Miami, FL (although technically, this is heavy rail)
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Re: Light Rail Routes in Other Cities

Post by KCMax »

Kinda off topic, but I was watching the Colbert Report. Light rail cost the GOP control of the Senate. Virginia Senate candidate Gail Parker ran on one issue - light rail. She offered to throw her support to either George Allen or Jim Webb if they pledged to support light rail. Neither did. She garnered 26,000 votes, well more than enough to solidify the election for either candidate should all those votes have gone to one candidate.

Just thought that was amusing!
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Re: Light Rail Routes in Other Cities

Post by Highlander »

Most of these routes seem to follow one principle: KISS.....keep it simple stupid.  Something Chastain's route seems to ignore by being far more complicated than the average route.
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Re: Light Rail Routes in Other Cities

Post by 49r »

Chastain's route would appear as a straight line in a transit map such as the ones posted above.

Transit maps DO NOT account for all the twists and turns in a rail line.  Ride the red line in Boston between Kendall, Central, Harvard and Porter sometime and you'll see what I mean.
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Re: Light Rail Routes in Other Cities

Post by Highlander »

49r wrote: Chastain's route would appear as a straight line in a transit map such as the ones posted above.

Transit maps DO NOT account for all the twists and turns in a rail line.  Ride the red line in Boston between Kendall, Central, Harvard and Porter sometime and you'll see what I mean.
Some do, Some don't.  If you really want to see how they interact with the city, then pick up a city map with the rail superimposed showing all the stations.  On a detail city map, they are generally true to form on a cartoon as some of those shown above, they are just straight lines.  How Chastain's map would appear on a map would depend on how a cartographer decided to protray it.  My guess is that the big turn DT from Broadway towards Main would show up but the little pertubations in the Midtown area would not.  I understand the concept, I've been riding transit lines (not necessarily all light rail) in Europe regularly for the last 9 years.
Last edited by Highlander on Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Light Rail Routes in Other Cities

Post by DaveKCMO »

49r wrote: Chastain's route would appear as a straight line in a transit map such as the ones posted above.

Transit maps DO NOT account for all the twists and turns in a rail line.  Ride the red line in Boston between Kendall, Central, Harvard and Porter sometime and you'll see what I mean.
i might also add that the brown line in chicago is incredibly slow, but yet it remains packed every day for rush hour. it's getting a major overhaul as we speak.
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Re: Light Rail Routes in Other Cities

Post by Highlander »

DaveKCMO wrote: i might also add that the brown line in chicago is incredibly slow, but yet it remains packed every day for rush hour. it's getting a major overhaul as we speak.
OK, but in Chicago there are compelling reasons to use mass transit even if its slow....the problems associated with driving, if you even own a car, lack of parking, and a really dense population in close proximity to infrastructure.  Light rail in KC has to compete with the ease of automobile use.....and practically everyone has a car. 
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Re: Light Rail Routes in Other Cities

Post by warwickland »

many some metrolink (stl) schematics just show a two pronged fork, but in reality it is closer to this (even though this is simplified):

Image
Last edited by warwickland on Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Light Rail Routes in Other Cities

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Image

AHH DONT HIT ME!  :o
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Re: Light Rail Systems

Post by JivecitySTL »

DaveKCMO wrote: pretty much all rail cars are custom in some way and cost depends largely on the system configuration. however, traditional overhead electric catenary cars that aren't designed to go underground and run on standard gauge rail are cheapest (see st. louis).
This doesn't make sense to me, considering a pretty significant portion of St. Louis's system is in subways...

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If anything, I think St. Louis's MetroLink system has more underground stations than most light rail systems in the United States.  Your theory about the "cheap trains" not being designed to go underground ("see st. louis") holds no water.

Subway stations: 4
Partially enclosed underground stations:  5
Elevated/bridge stations:  6

^That's just the MO side of the system.  I'm not as familiar with the East Side.
Last edited by JivecitySTL on Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Light Rail Systems

Post by GRID »

He's talking about the rolling stock, which light rail is "cheaper".

St Louis does have one of the most heavy rail "acting" systems in the country.  It's a great hybrid system that is capable of doing "it all".
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Re: Light Rail Systems

Post by DaveKCMO »

sorry, i should clarify that i was referring to "third rail" systems (NYC, DC, LA's red line, boston's orange line), of which many go underground (and most are called subways). do locals call the st. louis system the "subway"? my basic point stands true... overhead catenary is cheaper than third rail/underground/subway.
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Re: Light Rail Routes in Other Cities

Post by DaveKCMO »

i like it!
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Re: Light Rail Systems

Post by JivecitySTL »

DaveKCMO wrote: sorry, i should clarify that i was referring to "third rail" systems (NYC, DC, LA's red line, boston's orange line), of which many go underground (and most are called subways). do locals call the st. louis system the "subway"? my basic point stands true... overhead catenary is cheaper than third rail/underground/subway.
^Oh definitely.  Light rail is definitely cheaper than heavy rail, but it is even more versatile, having the capability to run on streets, in trenches, in subways, on bridges and elevated tracks. 

To answer your question, most people in STL call it "the Metro," "MetroLink" or "the Link" but you do invariably hear it referred to as the subway, especially downtown.
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Re: Light Rail Routes in Other Cities

Post by advocrat »

Highlander wrote: OK, but in Chicago there are compelling reasons to use mass transit even if its slow....the problems associated with driving, if you even own a car, lack of parking, and a really dense population in close proximity to infrastructure.  Light rail in KC has to compete with the ease of automobile use.....and practically everyone has a car. 
But what's going to happen to the Union Station traffic congestion  when 4000-9000 regular and seasonal workers converge on the area beginning this Spring. I'm not nay-saying your concerns over the route, but I think traffic congestion is going to emphasize the imperative to develop a Light Rail system in Kansas City.  I think the City council may sense this subconsciously, and consciously since the ballot initiative passed.

I am less angry and condemning of Clay Chastain, and much more angry at the City for discouraging earlier plans, ignoring a growing demand for Light Rail transit, and not producing a plan, with costs, to the public. They sat on their asses for the last 6 years. And their inaction has not bit them in the butt.  I'm for forgetting Clay Chastain and all for going after the council's throat like a group of pit-bulls and making them move forward with a positive and intelligent effort. They have already done too much whining, and the Ruckus doofusses tend to be complainers, not leaders.
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Re: Light Rail Routes in Other Cities

Post by Highlander »

advocrat wrote: But what's going to happen to the Union Station traffic congestion  when 4000-9000 regular and seasonal workers converge on the area beginning this Spring. I'm not nay-saying your concerns over the route, but I think traffic congestion is going to emphasize the imperative to develop a Light Rail system in Kansas City.  I think the City council may sense this subconsciously, and consciously since the ballot initiative passed. .
Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.  This will definately cause traffic issues which will highlight the need for transit (although I believe parking still won't be much of a problem).  I think that is a good problem to have as it shows the area is becoming vital.  But, it does not change the fact that Main is still a better route than Broadway. 
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Re: Light Rail Routes in Other Cities

Post by DaveKCMO »

advocrat wrote: ...and the Ruckus doofusses tend to be complainers, not leaders.
aka pundits.
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by DaveKCMO »

charlotte's gettin' bizzay! metro pop: 1.6 million.

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/p ... sp?id=9830
Earlier this week, the Charlotte region’s Metropolitan Transit Commission (MTC) approved Charlotte Area Transit System’s (CATS) 2030 Corridor System Plan and prioritized several projects. During the next two decades, CATS will construct four rapid transit corridors and launch streetcar service.

In 2013, the agency plans to open the $740.5 million Northeast Corridor, an extension of the LYNX light-rail line — currently under construction — from 7th Street in Center City to the University of North Carolina at Charlotte campus.

CATS also will construct a North Corridor commuter-rail line, which will run over existing Norfolk Southern Railway tracks to connect with a proposed Charlotte Gateway Station in Center City, then run to northern Mecklenburg and Mount Mourne. The project includes building 10 stations and realigning a portion of track in Huntersville to serve a proposed development. The $261 million first phase — between Huntersville, Cornelius, Davidson and Charlotte — is expected to be complete in 2012. Scheduled to be complete in 2019, the $111.9 million second phase calls for increasing service levels. CATS will develop a funding plan for the project and present options to the MTC by July 1, 2007.

In addition, the agency plans to soon finalize draft environmental documents for a streetcar service that would operate in Charlotte between the Rosa Parks Place Community Transit Center, along Beatties Ford Road to Uptown and continue to Eastland Community Transit Center. The $210.6 million first phase is scheduled to be completely by 2018; the $209.8 million second phase would be complete by 2023.
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Re: Light Rail Routes in Other Cities

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

advocrat wrote: But what's going to happen to the Union Station traffic congestion  when 4000-9000 regular and seasonal workers converge on the area beginning this Spring.
Not sure what the total employment at IRS will be in peak season but the total employment will be around the clock instead of 8 to 5.  Also, the shifts tend to be staggered.  That should help alleviate some of the traffic concerns
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