Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Transportation topics in KC
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by brewcrew1000 »

I don't get the whole route either and I am from Milwaukee. The route in the Northeast part of the route is more residential/high rises, so its nice that they have residents along the route but don't undersand why they they didn't go down Wisconsin Ave (Milwaukee's Main Street) to connect with Marquette University. Were they just dead set on connecting the train station/intermodal?

Its possible they didn't want to go down Wisconsin because once you get past Marquette going west on Wisconsin it starts getting a little dangerous
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KCtoBrooklyn
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by KCtoBrooklyn »

The roll out of the St Louis Loop Trolley really has been a shit show.

After years of delays, they finally had the ribbon cutting ceremony yesterday, but couldn't start service due to snow (I guess that part was just bad luck).

Service started today, but only with two cars running a shortened route that didn't even reach the Loop due to a "bureaucratic snafu" . On top of that, there was a shooting that suspended service.

For now, it will only be running noon to 8 on weekdays, noon to 11 on weekends.

I thought all of the negativity about the Loop Trolley was just typical haters (like we had in KC pre streetcar), but it really seems like a mess so far.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/met ... -top-story
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by grovester »

KC has been completely blessed with the execution of the streetcar, so many horror stories from other cities.
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by DaveKCMO »

brewcrew1000 wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:17 am I will be in Milwaukee this week and plan on riding the street car. One thing I am disappointed is that it does not run by any of the 2 sports arenas. Its about 5/6 blocks away. Seems like a huge opportunity missed not putting it by arenas. It would be nice to park a mile away and take the streetcar into the game
Sport venues are not reliable daily generators of ridership. Jobs/residents -- that's what transit planners should (and often do) focus on. The Milwaukee Streetcar is higher capacity than a bus, but is practically useless for filling a stadium with 15 minute headways. Much better to connect to the multimodal Amtrak/Greyhound station.

Milwaukee streetcar will do fine if they can keep it free. It's just too short to charge a fare. The "lakefront" loop that will open later is actually pretty stupid though.
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by flyingember »

Loop Trolley had one of two vehicles break down already. Started full service less than a month ago.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/met ... 1e9d9.html
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normalthings
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by normalthings »

Follow up Question: aside from vehicle cost, why are heritage streetcar systems soo much cheaper than modern streetcar systems?
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by DaveKCMO »

Loop Trolley has a lengthy single track section, for one. Vehicle cost is major, especially if refurb.
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by DaveKCMO »

Things aren't looking good in St. Louis...
“Loop trolley counted 727 passengers for the *16 days* it operated in January and 431 passengers for *12 days* in February, as of Feb. 25.”
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normalthings
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by normalthings »

DaveKCMO wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:57 pm Things aren't looking good in St. Louis...
“Loop trolley counted 727 passengers for the *16 days* it operated in January and 431 passengers for *12 days* in February, as of Feb. 25.”
Will this hurt their chances of getting federal funding for the N/S light Rail Line?
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by KCPowercat »

Why is it running so few days?
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by DaveKCMO »

normalthings wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:59 pm
DaveKCMO wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:57 pm Things aren't looking good in St. Louis...
“Loop trolley counted 727 passengers for the *16 days* it operated in January and 431 passengers for *12 days* in February, as of Feb. 25.”
Will this hurt their chances of getting federal funding for the N/S light Rail Line?
Probably not. The Loop Trolley project came about in a very unusual way -- even for streetcars -- and Bi-State (Metro) generally has a good reputation, even though they totally screwed up the cross-county light rail project (which didn't use federal funds).
Why is it running so few days?
Their TDD isn't sustainable, so it didn't generate enough revenue to build the thing let alone enough to operate it frequently. The only saving grace is that there is a professional at the helm who might be able to keep the ship from sinking if they can find a source of revenue to expand service or make it free to ride.
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by gfenn11 »

I've been living/working in Cincinnati for a few weeks and cannot say enough how lucky we are compared to here.

Downsides include:
~20 minute headways.
While the route generally works for the streets here, the downside is it shifts from lane to lane on the same street so it is CONSTANTLY waiting signal clearance.
The stop amenities are similar to ours, but the signage leaves a lot to be desired as you have to look at the platform dead on to see arrival info.
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by GRID »

Hopefully people here enjoy these pics since they have to do with urban planning, infrastructure etc. These are pics of Downtown Silver Spring and Downtown Bethesda Maryland. Suburban downtowns close to DC. I hope to get more pics like this of other areas of DC.

Here are some pics of the purple line going through Downtown Silver Spring, Maryland. The Purple line is a beltway (suburb to suburb) LRT line. It has been through hell to get built after delays with lawsuits and then the original contractor pulled out in the middle of construction. But it's finally going again. This LRT line I believe is the first of its kind in the USA to only connect suburbs. It has major stops in several major suburban business centers which are all also major Metro/Marc stops. Bethesda, Silver Spring, New Carrolton and the University of Maryland's main campus are the major stations. A lot of people would like to see this line extended to Tysons Corner in VA, but who knows if that will ever happen.

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These pics are where it connects with the Silver Spring transit center (and a few where it goes through the Silver Spring library). There is also a major bike trail that is passing through the transit center on its own bridge that will follow the same right of way as the light rail to Bethesda.

The Silver Spring transit center is a Metro Rail and Marc Rail station and a three level bus transfer station for Metro Buses and Montgomery County buses (including Flash BRT routes) along with some others like University of Maryland buses etc. Commuter coach buses stop outside the transit center. Once the Purple line is in place, this will be a pretty interesting hub of LRT, Commuter Rail, Heavy Rail, BRT and a major bus facility.

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The metropolitan branch bike trail:

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This is where the LRT will pass through the Library:

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There is where the LRT and the bike trail come into Bethesda. They both go underground after this point under Downtown Bethesda. The bike trail bridge will cross over the LRT here.

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Some random pics of Downtown Bethesda: I'm posting these because I think KC could possibly look at Bethesda for ideas on what to do with the Plaza.

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In Bethesda, the Red Line metro is underground (under this plaza). The new purple line is also underground and will be connected to the Red Line.

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Last edited by GRID on Tue Oct 03, 2023 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
langosta
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by langosta »

Zero reason KC can't have this. Our region and respective states need to get serious
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by GRID »

langosta wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 10:26 pm Zero reason KC can't have this. Our region and respective states need to get serious
It seems like the state of KS is willing to step up for the KC area since the KC area is basically most of the Kansas economy. I can see the JoCo and WyCo governments and taxpayers supporting improving transit etc. The problem is the KS side really can't do anything unless it's part of a bigger MO side system.

That's where the problems seem to really start. I believe Missouri is one of just a few states that does not even have dedicated funding for urban transit. Jeff City politically puts KC behind both metro St Louis and rural Missouri. KC is literally not important to Jeff City. But much of that is metro KC's fault.

It doesn't help that the largest county in the KC area (Jackson) has terrible leadership and seems to have zero goals etc. I don't even think Jackson County has a real planning department and if they do, it has to be super bare bones. So the county has no long term goals or ambitions because it doesn't even know what it wants to improve or needs to improve. This is why MoDot walks all over the KC area and does the bare minimum there, but in StL they are forced to do more than the bare minimum by the local governments.

If you compare Jackson County (or even Clay) to St Louis or St Charles County (or Johnson County KS), you would think Jackson County had a population of 20k. They just have no idea how to run a large urban/suburban county. The county government may as well not exist.

However, IF Jackson County ever got its act together along with Clay and Platte and put together some real plans that people could vote on and would take those plans to the voters and to the states of MO and KS..... Then yeah, I think KC could have better regional transit and other basic infrastructure.
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by Chris Stritzel »

langosta wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 10:26 pm Zero reason KC can't have this. Our region and respective states need to get serious
1. KC's population isn't on the level of the DC area to support such a transit network.
2. The DC area benefits from DC itself. The government will do things that benefit themselves, their employees and their families. So transit projects get invested in among other things. KC is clearly not that.
3. All governments in their region work together as one because all understand the importance of such a governing structure. KC does not.
GRID wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 2:19 pm ...That's where the problems seem to really start. I believe Missouri is one of just a few states that does not even have dedicated funding for urban transit. Jeff City politically puts KC behind both metro St Louis and rural Missouri. KC is literally not important to Jeff City. But much of that is metro KC's fault.

It doesn't help that the largest county in the KC area (Jackson) has terrible leadership and seems to have zero goals etc. I don't even think Jackson County has a real planning department and if they do, it has to be super bare bones. So the county has no long term goals or ambitions because it doesn't even know what it wants to improve or needs to improve. This is why MoDot walks all over the KC area and does the bare minimum there, but in StL they are forced to do more than the bare minimum by the local governments.

If you compare Jackson County (or even Clay) to St Louis or St Charles County (or Johnson County KS), you would think Jackson County had a population of 20k. They just have no idea how to run a large urban/suburban county. The county government may as well not exist.
Funny thing is, the same thing about Jeff City not caring is said by St. Louis folks. I do feel that the state is turning its attention more to KC than STL and retaining full attention on the rural parts of the state. County leadership is most important in this effort and must remain the focus. Get leaders who know what they're doing in office and you'll see positive changes. Whether that includes transit is unclear.
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by GRID »

Transit in DC is drastically underfunded and at a service way below what it should be compared to the rest of the developed world. For the capital of the United State, it could and should be a lot better. Especially outside the central core metro system. MARC and VRE barely pass as commuter rail let alone the regional rail you see in Europe, Australia, Asia etc. It's all relative. It's decent for the USA, but the DMV also has like 7 million people.

KC could do something more on the level of what Charlotte or SLC has though to at least get started. Then in 20 years they would be closer to what Denver or MSP has. Still not great by world standards, but about as good as it gets in America outside of NYC and maybe Chicago.
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by langosta »

Read that some 25% of attendees at Target Field take public transit. Two Light rail lines and commuter rail stop at Target Field. Few hundred bike!
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by FlippantCitizen »

Cycling to a day game would easily be a favorite activity for me when Royals are DT
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Re: Light Rail Systems And Routes In Other Cities

Post by alejandro46 »

https://www.railwaygazette.com/light-ra ... 85.article

First phase of Edmonton Valley Line opens. Second phase projected to open in 2028, total length 27-kilometre (17 mi). Lot of parallels to KC, both medium sized prairie cities but Edmonton has more developed transit infrastructure than KC.

Edmonton Valley Line Southeast
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CANADA: Edmonton’s Valley Line Southeast light rail route opened on November 4, running 13·1 km from 102 Street in the city centre to Mill Woods.

The project forms part of the city’s plan to develop accessible, convenient and sustainable travel options, with a target of 50% of trips being made by public or active transport.

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The line has been built by the TransEd Partners consortium under a PPP contract which covers design, construction, financing and 30 years of operation and maintenance.

The consortium comprises Bechtel, EllisDon, Alstom and Fengate Capital Management Ltd, supported by Arup Canada and IBI Group.

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Financial close was reached in February 2016 and a groundbreaking ceremony took place two months later, when opening had been planned for late 2020.

Capital cost C$1·8bn
Canadian government C$400m
Province of Alberta C$600m
City of Edmonton C$800m
Alstom supplied 26 low-floor light rail vehicles from its Kingston, Ontario factory in 2018-21, as successor to original consortium member Bombardier Transportation. The LRVs have space for wheelchair users and bicycles, as well as priority seats near all of the doors.

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Alstom also has a majority share in the joint venture responsible for operations and maintenance on behalf of for TransEd; Alstom said this represents the first light rail line where it is involved in the complete O&M scope.

London Trackwork supplied track including turnouts and crossovers.

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There are 11 street-level stops and one elevated stop, including a 1 300-space Park & Ride site at Davies. These feature heated shelters, open sight lines, emergency phones, and CCTV.

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The line includes the Tawatinâ Bridge across North Saskatchewan River, a short tunnel from the north face of the River Valley through to the Quarters redevelopment, and an interchange with the existing Metro and Capital LRT lines at Churchill Square.
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As part of the city’s public art policy there are 13 works of art along the route, including glass, sculptures, a mosaic and a series of paintings.

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‘I know many Edmontonians have been looking forward to opening day for the better part of two decades’, said Mayor Amarjeet Sohi ahead of the opening. ‘Valley Line Southeast will offer an affordable and climate-friendly choice to move around our city for decades to come.’

TransEd Partners CEO Ronald Joncas said ‘this has been a long journey, with challenges and detours, but we’re confident in the system we’ve built’.
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