Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

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normalthings
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by normalthings » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:25 pm

http://theplan.metro.net/#impacts
https://www.metro.net/projects/crenshaw_corridor/

LA's Measure M Transit Initiative and Metro websites are a good read for anyone interested in transit. IMHO, we should "borrow" the visual that shows the cost of transit tax on everyday items.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:57 am

Next public meeting on Feb. 21:

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https://www.facebook.com/events/363528334486641/

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by normalthings » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:14 pm

I was in LA this week and noticed that their center running light rail allows for left turns.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:34 pm

normalthings wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:14 pm
I was in LA this week and noticed that their center running light rail allows for left turns.
It's possible, but alas KC couldn't wrap their heads around it. I tried.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by normalthings » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:46 am

Any updates from tonight’s meeting?

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by UrbanKC » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:33 am

What updates are there for actually getting this line constructed?

After the ballot results this last year, we really haven't heard too much beyond general planning. When should we expect to see construction actually starting?

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by alejandro46 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:35 am

My understanding is that they are still waiting on the Federal "New Start" grant award. This is further delayed by the Government shutdown and is not 100% guaranteed (Because Trump). However, it seems like projects with high local match have been a big determinate for awarding funds.

http://kcstreetcar.org/main-st-extensio ... g-request/

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... fects.html

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:54 am

I know this won't be completely correct since the downtown TDD was technically expanded, but I seem to recall the board for the operating system gave a loan to the expansion project to continue planning to make sure it's not held up with months of engineering left until it's shovel ready.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:44 am

https://twitter.com/NortheastNewsKC/sta ... 6316178432

The image showing time of day statistics is interesting. There's a lot of people using it off peak to get to work and home.
This shows that the streetcar may be very popular for service jobs that aren't 9-5.

This shows that running busses less frequently off peak could be the exact opposite decision we need to be making and there's a need to investigate this further across the entire network.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:18 pm

flyingember wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:44 am
This shows that running busses less frequently off peak could be the exact opposite decision we need to be making and there's a need to investigate this further across the entire network.
Such changes are already being discussed, at least on the "fast and frequent" routes identified in SmartMoves.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by beautyfromashes » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:31 pm

So, if federal funding doesn’t come in and a second revenue source is identified, there will have to be another neighborhood election since the tax was voted to be pulled only after federal funding approval, correct? I’m curious if that would be impossible with the new anti-streetcar citizens vote that tried to shut down future planning.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:28 am

beautyfromashes wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:31 pm
So, if federal funding doesn’t come in and a second revenue source is identified, there will have to be another neighborhood election since the tax was voted to be pulled only after federal funding approval, correct? I’m curious if that would be impossible with the new anti-streetcar citizens vote that tried to shut down future planning.
No additional elections are required. Here's the "conditions precedent" from the ballot language:
The "Conditions "Precedent" are (a) approval by a majority of the votes cast by the qualified voters of the District of this question, (b) approve of Question 2 [special assessments] by the qualified voters of the District, and (c) the occurrence of the following (i) the Starter Line District is abolished, terminated or dissolved, or merged with or into the District, or its revenue sources reduced to zero by action of the Board of Directors of the Starter Line District or otherwise, in accordance with then applicable law, and (ii) the Board of Directors of the District determines that there are sufficient funds to be derived from sources other than revenue of the District in order to make the construction of a substantial portion of the Extension Route financially viable when aggregated with revenue from the District.
Note that it does not say we have to have a federal grant in hand. Regardless, receiving a score from the Federal Transit Administration and being listed in their recommended project list should be sufficient to turn on part or all of the voter approved revenue sources. The occupant of the White House will change -- in 2020 or 2024 -- and there is clear indication that Congress will continue to appropriate (and possibly even reintroduce earmarks) to ensure capital projects are funded.

From the recent shutdown appropriations agreement signed by Trump:

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by mykn » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:17 am

If we rename the system the "Trump Train", do you think we could get some of that $$$ the feds are taking away from California?

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by GRID » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:18 pm

They should submit a list of all major cities and how much they have received in FTA grants over the last 20 years. KC would have to be near the very bottom. KC and MO residents pay into these fed grants, so they should get more of their share back.

I would think the KC streetcar would have as good a chance as any streetcar proposed to date. That corridor should be served with a much more intense transit system than a streetcar in shared traffic. I think the FTA is getting off easy for KC even if they fully fund the grant. Plus KCMO has a lot of local money lined up and it will be a relatively high ridership line for a streetcar.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:24 pm

To our credit, the operations, management and financial side has been solid and ridership has come through.

Compare that to other recent projects. St. Louis basically had to shut their system down one of the first weekends open. Cincinnati has had major problems with vehicles and money.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by dnweava » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:40 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:34 pm
normalthings wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:14 pm
I was in LA this week and noticed that their center running light rail allows for left turns.
It's possible, but alas KC couldn't wrap their heads around it. I tried.
Can you try a little harder before construction? seriously, if we don't go with center running, we are going to regret it for 50 years....

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by tower » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:55 pm

^I feel like some of the information the streetcar authority put out was very pro outside-running, especially this matrix, which was one of the first things put out about the differences: http://kcstreetcar.org/wp-content/uploa ... Maps-8.pdf

And it seems like dedicated lanes were never discussed.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by normalthings » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:41 pm

dnweava wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:40 pm
DaveKCMO wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:34 pm
normalthings wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:14 pm
I was in LA this week and noticed that their center running light rail allows for left turns.
It's possible, but alas KC couldn't wrap their heads around it. I tried.
Can you try a little harder before construction? seriously, if we don't go with center running, we are going to regret it for 50 years....
^^We will regret it for forever. An expanded streetcar system will be hampered if we go center running. Also, we need to build some switches in mid town. The streetcar expansion will be a joke if a single car parked over the line stops riders from the Riverfront to UMKC.

I showed the current plans to some of my co-workers and work friends who have worked on LR and Streetcar projects in other cities. They want to know what the consultants and engineers on our project think of our choice to go center running. Dave, do you happen to know?

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by beautyfromashes » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:05 pm

normalthings wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:41 pm
The streetcar expansion will be a joke if a single car parked over the line stops riders from the Riverfront to UMKC.
So, get rid of the parking. There is hardly any of it on the Main extension path currently. The 10-20 cars currently on the line path could easily be moved to an off street or might even disappear with use of the streetcar and a bike/pedestrian lane would be much more useful for the neighborhood.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by GRID » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:46 pm

Yeah, I seriously can't believe they didn't go with center tracks. That's the difference between a true transit spine and a fun toy to ride while in the city. Other routes would be fine with curb running shared traffic, but the core line from the plaza to downtown? Come on.

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