We need a new airport!!!

Transportation topics in KC
flyingember
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:44 am

Sani wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:50 am
How long until we get something like this, the Program Definition Manual for the new terminal in Des Moines?
It's been on the KCI website for years.

https://www.flykci.com/media/1446/mci-t ... -final.pdf

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:55 pm


brewcrew1000
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by brewcrew1000 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:04 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:55 pm
For all the SWA fans in kc.....

https://twitter.com/KCBizJournal/status ... 26689?s=19
I honestly think that ship has sailed and St Louis will be the Mid-Contient hub for a long time. St Louis has seemed to work quite well for SW and they have a flights to mid sized cities which work in a hub set up - Des Moines, Omaha, Wichita, Little Rock,

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:54 pm

Dunno....the story wasn't written specifically from a KC angle so odd it would be mentioned.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:02 pm

brewcrew1000 wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:04 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:55 pm
For all the SWA fans in kc.....

https://twitter.com/KCBizJournal/status ... 26689?s=19
I honestly think that ship has sailed and St Louis will be the Mid-Contient hub for a long time. St Louis has seemed to work quite well for SW and they have a flights to mid sized cities which work in a hub set up - Des Moines, Omaha, Wichita, Little Rock,
I used to agree with that but I’m not so sure anymore. The only space left for SWA to expand in in STL is the old, former RJ and commuter jet concourse. A long and narrow single loaded terminal is not really an ideal set up.

STL Terminal 2 has had problems with baggage throughout but they are building an additional facility. However, I’m not sure if it’s just baggage claims or bag claims and sortatation.

In addition, it’s important to note that a lot of SWA maintenance is performed at the KCI overhaul base. Far more than is performed in STL afaik.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:06 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:54 pm
Dunno....the story wasn't written specifically from a KC angle so odd it would be mentioned.
I agree. The information in the KCBiz article originally ran in a Wall Street Journal piece. SWA previously had not been willing to make statements like that to even the small local news outlets. Coming out and saying that to the Wall Street Journal carries a certain weight to it.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:27 pm

I would think KC would make more sense for a hub due to the large area that it services and the proximity to many growing midsized cities that will continue to grow (Omaha, Springfield, Des Moines, etc) St. Louis has a much smaller draw to these type of cities due to geography and location closer to bigger hubs/metro area (Chicago, Memphis, Nashville, Cindy, etc).

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by dev49 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:03 pm

The entire reason for building the new terminal was so Southwest could connect more passengers. So, I am not sure this is some sort of revelation. I think this was expected. Southwest likes to build their flights "mostly" point to point with filling extra space with connections. I would expect this means a lot of cites we just don't quite have enough O&D to will now be possible to have nonstop (CLE/CMH/etc). That doesn't mean they are going to come in here and add a ton of flights from day one but I would expect them to slowly grow capacity. They are running out of space at other airports (mainly MDW/DAL) so they need another airport to start pushing more connections through. We are flanked by STL and DEN, which are still growing (and will continue to grow until our new terminal is open) but I think there will still be plenty of room for us to have our own connecting operation. And even though Southwest is pushing this terminal, it doesn't mean that a different airline won't be the one to have an expansion. IF Southwest decides they really don't need a big operation here, I think someone else will come in and fill the void. Delta seems to be pushing towards the idea of having some focus cities, or who knows in 5 years what JetBlue/Alaska will be doing with the middle of the country.

Only asterisk to this is that none of us know what the air transportation landscape will be like when the terminal does finally open. We could be in a recession, or who knows what. Four to Six to how many ever years it takes, is a long time from now still. Growth has been really good lately and at some point the good times will have to level off to a more realistic number.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by dev49 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:07 pm

normalthings wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:02 pm
STL Terminal 2 has had problems with baggage throughout but they are building an additional facility. However, I’m not sure if it’s just baggage claims or bag claims and sortatation.
It is new baggage claims and a 2nd input further down towards their new gates for baggage handlers airside. So they can process twice as many bags coming off planes at a time.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:07 pm

dev49 wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:03 pm
The entire reason for building the new terminal was so Southwest could connect more passengers. So, I am not sure this is some sort of revelation. I think this was expected. Southwest likes to build their flights "mostly" point to point with filling extra space with connections. I would expect this means a lot of cites we just don't quite have enough O&D to will now be possible to have nonstop (CLE/CMH/etc). That doesn't mean they are going to come in here and add a ton of flights from day one but I would expect them to slowly grow capacity. They are running out of space at other airports (mainly MDW/DAL) so they need another airport to start pushing more connections through. We are flanked by STL and DEN, which are still growing (and will continue to grow until our new terminal is open) but I think there will still be plenty of room for us to have our own connecting operation. And even though Southwest is pushing this terminal, it doesn't mean that a different airline won't be the one to have an expansion. IF Southwest decides they really don't need a big operation here, I think someone else will come in and fill the void. Delta seems to be pushing towards the idea of having some focus cities, or who knows in 5 years what JetBlue/Alaska will be doing with the middle of the country.

Only asterisk to this is that none of us know what the air transportation landscape will be like when the terminal does finally open. We could be in a recession, or who knows what. Four to Six to how many ever years it takes, is a long time from now still. Growth has been really good lately and at some point the good times will have to level off to a more realistic number.
I don’t think that’s it’s a revelation more so a very strong positive. Yes, this has been expected since the beginning. It’s just good to hear someone so high up officially say it, and to be saying it to paper or such provenance as WSJ.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by FangKC » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:54 am

Thanksgiving Travel: Why America’s Airports Suck Compared to Asia’s

https://www.thedailybeast.com/thanksgiv ... mlVQAzwTYI

KCI rated: 2/10

So much for the "convenience."

https://www.airlinequality.com/airport- ... y-airport/

Top 100 Airports in the World

These rankings are based on international travelers, so it explains why KCI isn't among the top 100. As if.

https://www.airlinequality.com/review-p ... -airports/

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by SingleMalt12 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:19 am

Sani wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:50 am
How long until we get something like this, the Program Definition Manual for the new terminal in Des Moines?
It's very nice but DSM has a problem. They can't afford it & are short about $200M.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by Sani » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:20 am

flyingember wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:44 am
Sani wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:50 am
How long until we get something like this, the Program Definition Manual for the new terminal in Des Moines?
It's been on the KCI website for years.

https://www.flykci.com/media/1446/mci-t ... -final.pdf
Oh, maybe I misread that document. I thought that it was a final design manual for their new terminal. That is what I'm looking for for the new terminal here.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:41 am

Sani wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:20 am
flyingember wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:44 am
Sani wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:50 am
How long until we get something like this, the Program Definition Manual for the new terminal in Des Moines?
It's been on the KCI website for years.

https://www.flykci.com/media/1446/mci-t ... -final.pdf
Oh, maybe I misread that document. I thought that it was a final design manual for their new terminal. That is what I'm looking for for the new terminal here.
You linked to a planning document, I linked to the same kind of planning document. They're from different companies but it's the same thing. A document used for planning several years before approving a new terminal.

From the introduction:
The goal of the exercise is for a final deliverable providing an in-depth program definition manual for the Airport and future design consultant(s) that would outline all planning decisions. The PDM was intended to provide detailed criteria for developing the design for the new terminal and its associated projects. The findings of this study are the product of this Program Definition Manual (PDM) in the following chapters.
This is all concept work to be used in making the design for their terminal.

You're not going to find a final design docment for KCI because there won't be a final design until construction is well along. It's a design-build project.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:59 pm

mayor announces to press (not council) that there is a 2 month delay to look at scope and baggage system? Eff this....someone needs canned.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:09 pm

mayor announces to press (not council) that there is a 2 month delay to look at scope and baggage system? Eff this....someone needs canned.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:21 pm

Maybe we should hire B&M to manage our Aviation Dept. &

dev49
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by dev49 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:39 pm

Part of me wonders if this is about more than a baggage system. That seems like small peanuts in the grand scheme of things to be holding it up.

I am still ticked off that the council was told that airlines had signed off on everything when they hadn't. Makes me wonder what else we are being misled on.


Can't wait for the first new flight at the terminal in 2030 at this pace..... kidding.. kind of...

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:30 pm

Top of my fire list is Klein then schulte. Both seems heavily involved and over their heads.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by cityscape » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:52 pm

My understanding is that this is all to do with Allegient and Spirit trying to lessen the overall impact to them and they're using a critical piece of the new terminal (Baggage) as leverage. The top four carriers have signed off on the airport (Southwest, United, American, and Delta) which is more than the 66% usage we need to sign off on the bonds. Sly prefers that we get all airlines to sign onto the agreement to get better rates on the bonds, but it is not required. Since the environmental evaluation is still ongoing, it seems like a good time to have everyone come back to the table and work this all out. I think the problem here is that the media is making this out to be a bigger deal than it really needs to be.

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