We need a new airport!!!

Transportation topics in KC
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby Highlander » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:58 pm

mean wrote:I was already sold on and voted for the new terminal, but I flew for the holidays after a not having flown for a while and it was fairly awful. Granted it was Christmas Eve-eve and probably somewhat busier than usual, but the time it took to push my way through the masses of people to get from B40 to Starbucks was bad enough that I had to turn right back around. No time to wait in line for a drink and push my way back through the crowd. And B40 is like right there. Not that I had a spare hour or whatever, it didn't take that long, but if I've got 10-15 minutes to blow I'd sure like to be able to get a coffee or something.


Just flew through KCI. Arriving at KCI isn't all that bad. Departing is a pain in the ass. We had a similar experience to you. Because of circumstances, we arrived at the airport sooner than we wanted to for a United flight to SF. As expected, the choices for finding something to eat and a beer were extremely limited (ended up at a crappy restaurant on the opposite side of the terminal from our gate). The one eating establishment that did look compelling and relatively close appeared to be behind security in a completely different set of gates. After going through security, the gate area was packed and uncomfortable and virtually without amenities and when our flight began to queue up to board, the line completely blocked off access to more outlying gates for the people coming out of security. I hope the council can move forward and construction on the new terminal can start ASAP.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby mean » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:08 pm

Southwest, which just so happens to own the most flights, is particularly bad because the gate areas are so narrow and people insist on queueing up way before they're supposed to, not only adding unnecessary bodies for people to navigate through/around, but confusing the issue for those who are supposed to be queued up and understandably assume the doofus in group C who is preemptively standing in line while A boards is, in fact, in A group. Granted, this is an issue of people being stupid self-absorbed jerks as much as a deficiency of the terminal design (or Southwest's open seating), but I suppose it is in everyone's best interest if all infrastructure projects are designed to accommodate the fact that a certain number of people will reliably act in the most obnoxiously selfish ways possible.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby ldai_phs » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:28 pm

Edgemoor planning a Highschool and college student internship program as part of MOU/Community Benefits Agreement

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby KCPowercat » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:12 pm

Given the community meetings have restarted I take that as a positive regarding negotiations.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby cityscape » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:19 pm

Apparently though the $30 million fee the city would own if they don't meet their obligations is still on the table.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby kboish » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:08 pm

cityscape wrote:Apparently though the $30 million fee the city would own if they don't meet their obligations is still on the table.


I'm fairly certain this continues to be misrepresented by the media. My understanding based on watching committee hearings is that $30 million is the max amount Edgemoor could get reimbursed for work rendered if the city and Edgemoor do not reach a final financial agreement. I don't think Edgemoor simply "gets" $30 million if they don't reach a final agreement.

Plus, all work rendered would then be owned by the city and allow anyone who steps in to pick up where Edgemoor leaves off. (For example, some environmental work/assessment/engineering is already being done... and that will be needed no matter who is the developer).

I believe some council people either aren't understanding that or are purposely misrepresenting this detail.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby KCPowercat » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:49 pm

I think it's the second thing.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby kboish » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:55 pm

kboish wrote:
cityscape wrote:Apparently though the $30 million fee the city would own if they don't meet their obligations is still on the table.


I'm fairly certain this continues to be misrepresented by the media. My understanding based on watching committee hearings is that $30 million is the max amount Edgemoor could get reimbursed for work rendered if the city and Edgemoor do not reach a final financial agreement. I don't think Edgemoor simply "gets" $30 million if they don't reach a final agreement.

Plus, all work rendered would then be owned by the city and allow anyone who steps in to pick up where Edgemoor leaves off. (For example, some environmental work/assessment/engineering is already being done... and that will be needed no matter who is the developer).

I believe some council people either aren't understanding that or are purposely misrepresenting this detail.


I will add, that some of the council people brought up issues with what was eligible for reimbursement and the total reimbursement size. The Manager has defended the size of the reimbursement based on the desire for speed in the construction of the terminal....in other words, do more now instead of waiting since the site is vacant and ready for preliminary work. I don't know what the problem was with actual items to be reimbursed.

What seems to be happening is there are some council people negotiating in good faith (wagner, mcmanus, fowler, and probably lucas) and their are others who hear something and then just spin it to fit their narrative. Thats my opinion anyway. The majority seem to be level headed and able to get it done. Here's hoping anyway.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby kboish » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:38 am

The other main sticking point in the MOU is related to the community benefits agreement. Council members appear to be in disagreement over how the agreement should and actually can be constructed (read as: does the FAA allow funding of housing program not geographically adjacent to the airport?). So with all things, the main disagreement I've seen comes down to where does a relatively small total portion of the project budget get spent and can people wring a few more dollars out. Basically, I think everyone wants more money, but spent in their district (surprise, surprise). Something totally unrelated to actually building a new terminal.

The problem is, Edgemoor can't negotiate with 12 different people who have 7 different opinions. Plus, council people didn't seem to understand that they have to actually direct their representatives to negotiate for specific items, individuals can't just make side comments about stuff and then claim Edgemoor isn't being responsive (they can make that claim, but they're wrong). How is Edgemoor supposed to know who to appease if there is disagreement or they are receiving mixed signals?

So basically, the council people who have issues with the project are not all on the same page. There are a couple of factions that want different things. It seems to me the mayor figured this out and at least set up a process where there can actually be a negotiation now. Not everyone on the council will get what they want, but hopefully people see the bigger picture and we can just get a new frickin terminal at some point.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:03 am

I feel like some rookies in the council came up with this great CBA idea and now think it should be stuck on everything they approve without considering the impact or legality of that on projects.

I think it's a fine idea but when dealing with FAA funding type of things maybe listen to experts and adapt...it's not one size fits all.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby Highlander » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:56 pm

So have CBA's become a standard part of deals in the US between cities and developers? Or is this some kind of one off in KC? Reminds me of what a third world country would require of a western oil company as part of a deal to get a concession. Hope the council is grounded in reality here - if a company cannot make a reasonable return on their investment with the burdens placed on them and the government isn't willing to give some ground, they may simply walk.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby LCDSI » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:30 pm

A bit off topic but here's a nice video on the new terminal 3 being constructed in Taipei, Taiwan.

https://vimeo.com/143552601

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby kboish » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:48 pm

http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article194513689.html

KC Star calls for regional airport authority.

KCMO should use this as leverage to get regional transit funding.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby grovester » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:48 pm

kboish wrote:http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article194513689.html

KC Star calls for regional airport authority.

KCMO should use this as leverage to get regional transit funding.


Hell yes.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby flyingember » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:35 pm

Not enough unions in minority and women owned businesses for the airport to be both 100% union and 35% MBE at the same time

http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/edito ... 40439.html

Decades of unwelcoming and sometimes outright discriminatory behavior by organized labor toward minority- and women-owned firms have left the city in this difficult position. And while unions have an important role to play in the construction of the new KCI terminal, the reality is that this can’t be both an all-union project and include 35 percent minority- and women-owned firms.

...

The unions bear the brunt of the responsibility for this intractable quandary. Their past attitudes and behavior toward minority-owned shops have consequences. Today, only about half of the approximately 640 firms certified by the city as women- or minority-owned are union firms.


How about a different idea? Instead of promoting unions or MBE, allow both but require firms that are involved to include a minimum number of trainee workers new to the industry on their staff? To help fund new teaching positions at schools like the tech college so more people have more options to attend technical skill classes.

Because of this:
http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/17/news/ec ... index.html
Around St. Louis, building companies have limited ability to put up new homes as they struggle to find workers.

This isn't a St. Louis problem either. KC has a shortage of people to put up homes too. Our home was easily delayed a month over labor availability.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby Highlander » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:20 am

grovester wrote:
kboish wrote:http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article194513689.html

KC Star calls for regional airport authority.

KCMO should use this as leverage to get regional transit funding.


Hell yes.


Absolutely. Watching the council trying to play up to their constituencies by trying to extract CBA money from Edgemoor is painful. KC's politicians are trying to milk this thing to the point it will no longer be an attractive investment. And once again, KCI may be in KC but KC residents are a only a modest size minority of the users of the airport. This really needs to be a multi-county authority working with Edgemoor without any individuals with something to gain by delivering an amount of CBA dollars to a particular ward.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby beautyfromashes » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:57 am

Council members fighting for pork. Embarrassing!

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby grovester » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:45 am

Highlander wrote:
grovester wrote:
kboish wrote:http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article194513689.html

KC Star calls for regional airport authority.

KCMO should use this as leverage to get regional transit funding.


Hell yes.


Absolutely. Watching the council trying to play up to their constituencies by trying to extract CBA money from Edgemoor is painful. KC's politicians are trying to milk this thing to the point it will no longer be an attractive investment. And once again, KCI may be in KC but KC residents are a only a modest size minority of the users of the airport. This really needs to be a multi-county authority working with Edgemoor without any individuals with something to gain by delivering an amount of CBA dollars to a particular ward.


My enthusiasm was for the regional funding, not necessarily the regional authority. They shouldn't do one without the other. Any regional authority would also have the pork hunting, just over a broader area of town.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby Highlander » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:38 pm

grovester wrote:
Highlander wrote:
grovester wrote:
Hell yes.


Absolutely. Watching the council trying to play up to their constituencies by trying to extract CBA money from Edgemoor is painful. KC's politicians are trying to milk this thing to the point it will no longer be an attractive investment. And once again, KCI may be in KC but KC residents are a only a modest size minority of the users of the airport. This really needs to be a multi-county authority working with Edgemoor without any individuals with something to gain by delivering an amount of CBA dollars to a particular ward.


My enthusiasm was for the regional funding, not necessarily the regional authority. They shouldn't do one without the other. Any regional authority would also have the pork hunting, just over a broader area of town.


Isn't the airport regionally funded by default? It's funded by the users of the airport. I guess there is the issuance of construction bonds that would be backed by the city of KCMO and perhaps those should be a regionally shared liability even with as little risk as they pose.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby ldai_phs » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:33 pm

Part of me supports regional control. Part of me doesn't want sprawl loving suburbanites to have even more say over a vital city asset.


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