We need a new airport!!!

Transportation topics in KC
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beautyfromashes
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:46 pm

Several other smaller cities have direct flights to London and Paris. How about something different that would be a draw? How about Amsterdam. It’s a major connection hub and is close to many other destinations.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:49 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:Several other smaller cities have direct flights to London and Paris. How about something different that would be a draw? How about Amsterdam. It’s a major connection hub and is close to many other destinations.
Would be cool, but I think at this point it’s just getting someone to KC in the first place.

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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:55 pm

I’ve always been surprised that some French companies don’t locate their NA headquarters here. With Academy Lafayette and the Foreign Language Academy, we have a decent amount of French speakers compared to other metros our size.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by Highlander » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:13 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:What would be the best European city for a nonstop?
I'd prefer Frankfurt given the multitude of connections and the relatively user-friendly nature of the airport (albeit - you will walk). I think I've never deplaned on a A380 or 747 onto the tarmac to await busses but I have at Frankfurt. London would not be bad - but EU departure makes it more cumbersome. Amsterdam is ok but very KLM dominated. Paris DeGualle is chaotic and Kansas Citians who have never traveled abroad may find Frankfurt and London an easier transition into a new world.

That said, 300-350 daily international flyers originating out of KC is not very much and they of course are not all going to the same place let alone in the same direction. Business Class travel essentially subsidizes tourist class tickets and I have to wonder how many business class travelers would originate from KC. 10 million is quite a bit to spend on a defunct terminal that will soon be torn down, I wonder if there is anything we don't know about driving the urgency here.

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normalthings
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:38 pm

Highlander wrote:
beautyfromashes wrote:What would be the best European city for a nonstop?
I'd prefer Frankfurt given the multitude of connections and the relatively user-friendly nature of the airport (albeit - you will walk). I think I've never deplaned on a A380 or 747 onto the tarmac to await busses but I have at Frankfurt. London would not be bad - but EU departure makes it more cumbersome. Amsterdam is ok but very KLM dominated. Paris DeGualle is chaotic and Kansas Citians who have never traveled abroad may find Frankfurt and London an easier transition into a new world.

That said, 300-350 daily international flyers originating out of KC is not very much and they of course are not all going to the same place let alone in the same direction. Business Class travel essentially subsidizes tourist class tickets and I have to wonder how many business class travelers would originate from KC. 10 million is quite a bit to spend on a defunct terminal that will soon be torn down, I wonder if there is anything we don't know about driving the urgency here.
KC was very very close to landing a TATL. Things changed but other airlines are interested now so still likely to happen soon. The 300-350 is an average over the year. Much higher pax number in the summer time. I'd say it's probably mostly business in the winter time.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by im2kull » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:40 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:What would be the best European city for a nonstop?
Frankfurt is the clear choice.

It's really the only large, international connection hub in Europe. Why sell ourselves short?

Anyone who's been to Paris or London knows the disaster that those two airports are. Especially Paris CDG. Amsterdam, while decently nice, is not a good one stop for connections. Frankfurt is. Paris and London are final destinations.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:04 pm

I guess I don’t see Frankfurt as any kind of plus. Like you said, it’s not a final destination so would be a stop over to the Middle East or Africa. Of course, you can get non-stops to those places from airports on the east coast. Just a matter of having your layover in Europe or the east coast. Paris or London or Amsterdam would be destinations; non-stops there and back seeing no other airports. Rome or Spain would be good too.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:13 pm

Connected in London and Amsterdam. While large the process was super efficient and I'd do it again.

Left out of Frankfurt and it was fine too...just get me across the pond from KC and I'll be happy at this point....bonus points for a Oneworld partner.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by Highlander » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:05 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:I guess I don’t see Frankfurt as any kind of plus. Like you said, it’s not a final destination so would be a stop over to the Middle East or Africa. Of course, you can get non-stops to those places from airports on the east coast. Just a matter of having your layover in Europe or the east coast. Paris or London or Amsterdam would be destinations; non-stops there and back seeing no other airports. Rome or Spain would be good too.
The big decision on many of those destinations is how long you want to spend in the air. Over the past 10 years I did this often as a business class traveler, so I didn't mind the 17 hour Emirates flight from Houston to Dubai. But in tourist class, I'd think about breaking it up a bit. Frankfurt has some good qualities, but it's not that much better than Heathrow as an airport. Both are victims of haphazard efforts to grow to accommodate more and more traffic. At least Heathrow has a new domestic terminal. Both airports are difficult to negotiate but Heathrow does have a modern domestic terminal. DeGaulle is more simplistic in terms of negotiating but it has security checkpoints that are severe choke points. Contrary to what Im2kull said, both Paris and London Heathrow are bigger and busier than Frankfurt but they all rank in the top 15 most busy airports in the world

For me, the biggest advantage of Frankfurt just came down to the fact that I preferred Lufthansa to BA (expensive) and Air France although Frankfurt is nominally in a more central location.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by earthling » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:41 pm

Would expect that wherever Cerner's most common destinations are in Europe that's what we'll see. But otherwise if WoW Air is first, it might be a major tourist destination like London or Paris given they lean as a leisure/tourist airline. And WoW is apparently still considering KCI for 2019.

If KC's final destination tends to be scattered around small/medium sized Europe, then Frankfurt seems to make sense. That is otherwise it may be more convenient to fly to major Euro destinations via Chicago/Atlanta/DC than via Frankfurt. But to get to Euro/Mid-East locations not served by American hubs, Frankfurt then may make more sense. For those who need to hop via a hub, some might feel more comfortable hopping in an American airport they may already be familiar with and/or not deal with potential language issues at a foreign hub.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by Highlander » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:19 pm

earthling wrote:Would expect that wherever Cerner's most common destinations are in Europe that's what we'll see. But otherwise if WoW Air is first, it might be a major tourist destination like London or Paris given they lean as a leisure/tourist airline. And WoW is apparently still considering KCI for 2019.

If KC's final destination tends to be scattered around small/medium sized Europe, then Frankfurt seems to make sense. That is otherwise it may be more convenient to fly to major Euro destinations via Chicago/Atlanta/DC than via Frankfurt. But to get to Euro/Mid-East locations not served by American hubs, Frankfurt then may make more sense. For those who need to hop via a hub, some might feel more comfortable hopping in an American airport they may already be familiar with and/or not deal with potential language issues at a foreign hub.
I think Cerner has a huge contract with the UK national healthcare system. I think that would be there premier European destination. Making the connection in the US or Europe for points outside of Europe doesn't matter with respect to language, it's really not an issue. Everyone you would need to speak to at a European hub will be able to speak English. For me the major league pain in the ass of having to go through customs at your port of entry in the US rather than your destination, then rechecking your bags, was more the driving factor on the flight connection I chose.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by earthling » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:42 pm

For well traveled though, we learn the best paths. Would bet most casual/occasional travelers heading to Prague or Vienna or Cairo would rather go via Chicago or ATL than Frankfurt. It's probably a more perceived convenient/comfortable transfer for most who don't know what to expect at a foreign transfer. And also depends if you want first leg or last leg to be the long leg for out/inbound.

Just checked Cerner offices... "Cerner has offices located across Europe in the United Kingdom, Ireland, Spain, Germany, France, and Romania."

Couldn't find a list of clients in Europe but found this about Epic not competing well with Cerner in Europe.. "Cerner has garnered the most overall success throughout Europe, with the most ubiquitous successful adoption throughout the entire continent." So if that scattered, maybe Cerner would prefer a transfer in the best Euro hub, which is apparently Frankfurt.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:14 am

Curious what the largest European city is that doesn’t have a direct flight to the US, basically our counterpoint for that continent.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:19 am

As I understand it, BA was looking at STL and Others. Nashville offered more money so STL lost BA. Head of Nashville airport gets the boot for not getting the incentives approved by the airport board. WOW was looking at KC then STL swooped in with more money since they no longer had a chance with BA. WOW goes to STL. WOW is looking at KC for 2019/2020 though.

Now BA and Condor are looking at STL. Highly likely they are also looking at KC. IIRC STL has a sameish number of TATL PAX as KC. STL has a lot of local businesses and such putting up multiple millions for more TATL flights. Will be interesting to see what happens. I think its hard to sell other airlines on flying to STL before WOW starts up their operations and shows there is enough demand. Also heard KCI has had problems getting enough money together to put together a "competitive package" and can't afford to waive fees like other cities are (this may be a product of how bad our current terminals have made KCI).


It's key for us to get 1 TATL flight, airline and destination don't matter a whole lot(likely to succeed no matter what) as long as we can fill seats. That 1st flight establishes a city's ability to support a flight and increases TATL pax. Ex. Austin went from having 300 ish daily TATL PAX (same as current KC), getting 1 direct transatlantic flight, to having 3 years later 3+ TATL Airlines, including one operating a daily 747.

Fun Fact: 787's carry less pax than some of the A321's and such that regularly come into KC

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by earthling » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:41 am

https://cityscenekc.com/city-steps-up-e ... ign-party/

Side note: Looks like about 6% of local KCI passengers come from Nebraska/Iowa...
Overall, about 50.2 percent of local KCI passengers are from Kansas, 43.5 percent Missouri, and the remainder from Nebraska and Iowa, according to airport stats for the first half of 2017.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by brewcrew1000 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:50 am

beautyfromashes wrote:Curious what the largest European city is that doesn’t have a direct flight to the US, basically our counterpoint for that continent.
Pretty sure it Bucharest, its the 6th largest single city in Europe, if your talking about metro, it still might be Bucharest

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by kcjak » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:40 pm

Did anyone go to the public input meeting last night? Interested in hearing how things went without the KC Star or local news media slant.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:24 pm

Story said 75 people

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normalthings
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:20 pm

Multiple people said they wanted light rail.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:10 pm

I mean they want it but they won't use it or want to pay for it....it's a fun idea though.

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