We need a new airport!!!

Transportation topics in KC
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beautyfromashes
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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby beautyfromashes » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:04 pm

I guess I don’t see Frankfurt as any kind of plus. Like you said, it’s not a final destination so would be a stop over to the Middle East or Africa. Of course, you can get non-stops to those places from airports on the east coast. Just a matter of having your layover in Europe or the east coast. Paris or London or Amsterdam would be destinations; non-stops there and back seeing no other airports. Rome or Spain would be good too.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby KCPowercat » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:13 pm

Connected in London and Amsterdam. While large the process was super efficient and I'd do it again.

Left out of Frankfurt and it was fine too...just get me across the pond from KC and I'll be happy at this point....bonus points for a Oneworld partner.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby Highlander » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:05 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:I guess I don’t see Frankfurt as any kind of plus. Like you said, it’s not a final destination so would be a stop over to the Middle East or Africa. Of course, you can get non-stops to those places from airports on the east coast. Just a matter of having your layover in Europe or the east coast. Paris or London or Amsterdam would be destinations; non-stops there and back seeing no other airports. Rome or Spain would be good too.


The big decision on many of those destinations is how long you want to spend in the air. Over the past 10 years I did this often as a business class traveler, so I didn't mind the 17 hour Emirates flight from Houston to Dubai. But in tourist class, I'd think about breaking it up a bit. Frankfurt has some good qualities, but it's not that much better than Heathrow as an airport. Both are victims of haphazard efforts to grow to accommodate more and more traffic. At least Heathrow has a new domestic terminal. Both airports are difficult to negotiate but Heathrow does have a modern domestic terminal. DeGaulle is more simplistic in terms of negotiating but it has security checkpoints that are severe choke points. Contrary to what Im2kull said, both Paris and London Heathrow are bigger and busier than Frankfurt but they all rank in the top 15 most busy airports in the world

For me, the biggest advantage of Frankfurt just came down to the fact that I preferred Lufthansa to BA (expensive) and Air France although Frankfurt is nominally in a more central location.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby earthling » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:41 pm

Would expect that wherever Cerner's most common destinations are in Europe that's what we'll see. But otherwise if WoW Air is first, it might be a major tourist destination like London or Paris given they lean as a leisure/tourist airline. And WoW is apparently still considering KCI for 2019.

If KC's final destination tends to be scattered around small/medium sized Europe, then Frankfurt seems to make sense. That is otherwise it may be more convenient to fly to major Euro destinations via Chicago/Atlanta/DC than via Frankfurt. But to get to Euro/Mid-East locations not served by American hubs, Frankfurt then may make more sense. For those who need to hop via a hub, some might feel more comfortable hopping in an American airport they may already be familiar with and/or not deal with potential language issues at a foreign hub.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby Highlander » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:19 pm

earthling wrote:Would expect that wherever Cerner's most common destinations are in Europe that's what we'll see. But otherwise if WoW Air is first, it might be a major tourist destination like London or Paris given they lean as a leisure/tourist airline. And WoW is apparently still considering KCI for 2019.

If KC's final destination tends to be scattered around small/medium sized Europe, then Frankfurt seems to make sense. That is otherwise it may be more convenient to fly to major Euro destinations via Chicago/Atlanta/DC than via Frankfurt. But to get to Euro/Mid-East locations not served by American hubs, Frankfurt then may make more sense. For those who need to hop via a hub, some might feel more comfortable hopping in an American airport they may already be familiar with and/or not deal with potential language issues at a foreign hub.


I think Cerner has a huge contract with the UK national healthcare system. I think that would be there premier European destination. Making the connection in the US or Europe for points outside of Europe doesn't matter with respect to language, it's really not an issue. Everyone you would need to speak to at a European hub will be able to speak English. For me the major league pain in the ass of having to go through customs at your port of entry in the US rather than your destination, then rechecking your bags, was more the driving factor on the flight connection I chose.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby earthling » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:42 pm

For well traveled though, we learn the best paths. Would bet most casual/occasional travelers heading to Prague or Vienna or Cairo would rather go via Chicago or ATL than Frankfurt. It's probably a more perceived convenient/comfortable transfer for most who don't know what to expect at a foreign transfer. And also depends if you want first leg or last leg to be the long leg for out/inbound.

Just checked Cerner offices... "Cerner has offices located across Europe in the United Kingdom, Ireland, Spain, Germany, France, and Romania."

Couldn't find a list of clients in Europe but found this about Epic not competing well with Cerner in Europe.. "Cerner has garnered the most overall success throughout Europe, with the most ubiquitous successful adoption throughout the entire continent." So if that scattered, maybe Cerner would prefer a transfer in the best Euro hub, which is apparently Frankfurt.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby beautyfromashes » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:14 am

Curious what the largest European city is that doesn’t have a direct flight to the US, basically our counterpoint for that continent.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby ldai_phs » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:19 am

As I understand it, BA was looking at STL and Others. Nashville offered more money so STL lost BA. Head of Nashville airport gets the boot for not getting the incentives approved by the airport board. WOW was looking at KC then STL swooped in with more money since they no longer had a chance with BA. WOW goes to STL. WOW is looking at KC for 2019/2020 though.

Now BA and Condor are looking at STL. Highly likely they are also looking at KC. IIRC STL has a sameish number of TATL PAX as KC. STL has a lot of local businesses and such putting up multiple millions for more TATL flights. Will be interesting to see what happens. I think its hard to sell other airlines on flying to STL before WOW starts up their operations and shows there is enough demand. Also heard KCI has had problems getting enough money together to put together a "competitive package" and can't afford to waive fees like other cities are (this may be a product of how bad our current terminals have made KCI).


It's key for us to get 1 TATL flight, airline and destination don't matter a whole lot(likely to succeed no matter what) as long as we can fill seats. That 1st flight establishes a city's ability to support a flight and increases TATL pax. Ex. Austin went from having 300 ish daily TATL PAX (same as current KC), getting 1 direct transatlantic flight, to having 3 years later 3+ TATL Airlines, including one operating a daily 747.

Fun Fact: 787's carry less pax than some of the A321's and such that regularly come into KC

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby earthling » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:41 am

https://cityscenekc.com/city-steps-up-e ... ign-party/

Side note: Looks like about 6% of local KCI passengers come from Nebraska/Iowa...
Overall, about 50.2 percent of local KCI passengers are from Kansas, 43.5 percent Missouri, and the remainder from Nebraska and Iowa, according to airport stats for the first half of 2017.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby brewcrew1000 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:50 am

beautyfromashes wrote:Curious what the largest European city is that doesn’t have a direct flight to the US, basically our counterpoint for that continent.


Pretty sure it Bucharest, its the 6th largest single city in Europe, if your talking about metro, it still might be Bucharest

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby kcjak » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:40 pm

Did anyone go to the public input meeting last night? Interested in hearing how things went without the KC Star or local news media slant.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:24 pm

Story said 75 people

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby ldai_phs » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:20 pm

Multiple people said they wanted light rail.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:10 pm

I mean they want it but they won't use it or want to pay for it....it's a fun idea though.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby ldai_phs » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:19 pm

KCPowercat wrote:I mean they want it but they won't use it or want to pay for it....it's a fun idea though.

Yea I totally agree.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby ldai_phs » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:36 pm

kcjak wrote:Did anyone go to the public input meeting last night? Interested in hearing how things went without the KC Star or local news media slant.

Run Dowm:
1. Geoff goes over the airport project and what they are thinking in terms of design so far. Then asks the community some vague-ish questions about the airport and the city. "which picture reminds you the most of KC". What does KC mean to you? those types of things. They used a pretty cool texting program where you text in your thoughts and it pops up on the projector and is recorded for future reference.

Anyways he ends with "what is one word that describes the current KCI"
"trash" "old" "decrepit " were the general consensus. This was surprising since pretty much everyone was a suburban retiree.

2. The second part of the meeting was SOM people explaining how the current design of the airport was arrived at and renderings were shown. Id say the majority of people were concerned that it is too small.

3. Small Groups: broke into small groups to discuss what we wanna see in the airport.
top things I heard: Outlets, Fast Wifi, Electric Car Charging stations, Light Rail, lots of glass, BBQ,more electronic Check-in kiosks,

Was mentioned that they want to make the airport one of the most technologically advanced.
An outdoor rooftop park or such is a possibility but it sounded expensive and very hard to pull off.
The number of people involved in the project from the KC area was very surprising,

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby KCPowercat » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:04 am

I can't imagine going to a design meeting of a billion dollar facility and my input is electrical outlets.

So is Kansas City though

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby FangKC » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:02 am

Did anyone bring up anything practical like places for people to shower and change clothes when they are stuck in the airport because of storms, or delays? Perhaps those small sleeping pods like they have in Japan that you can rent by the hour. I always feel sorry for people stuck overnight at KCI who are shown on TV sleeping upright in chairs or on the floor.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby WoodDraw » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:18 am

KCPowercat wrote:I can't imagine going to a design meeting of a billion dollar facility and my input is electrical outlets.

So is Kansas City though


I hear ya, but it would be cool if we could get a technology partner early to commit to coming in. Google would be the obvious choice if they're interested.

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Re: We need a new airport!!!

Postby WoodDraw » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:24 am

FangKC wrote:Did anyone bring up anything practical like places for people to shower and change clothes when they are stuck in the airport because of storms, or delays? Perhaps those small sleeping pods like they have in Japan that you can rent by the hour. I always feel sorry for people stuck overnight at KCI who are shown on TV sleeping upright in chairs or on the floor.


This is a good idea, but I think the only way it would happen is if an airline paid to open a club.

On a related note, what do people think about connecting a hotel to the airport? I know one of the proposals recommended it.


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