New Broadway Bridge

Transportation topics in KC
User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 27316
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby KCPowercat » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:16 pm

Yeah I don't know I haven't fleshed out the whole idea obviously. If it was a small amount I don't think I'd take the bond bridge from the airport.

Or....Toll them all!

flyingember
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5569
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby flyingember » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:21 pm

There's an interesting quirk involved.

169- approx. 41.4k
MO 9- approx. 25.8k
I-35 approx. 100.7k

The 2006 study doc for the Bond Bridge said 2030 traffic would be:
100,000 for the No-Build Concept, 125,000 for the Six-lane Build Concept, 140,000 for the Eight-lane Build Concept and 135,000 for the Eight-lane HOV Concept

So it's entirely possible the bridge would hit the theoretical maximum it could hold. MO 9 can't handle too many more cars, the stop lights provide the maximum capacity. Some would split to 635 of course. But I bet there would be 25k more cars taking I-35 with a closing

We could find out what this maximum looks like real world and start planning way quicker. It would help give reasons to add commuter rail decades quicker.

WoodDraw
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 801
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby WoodDraw » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:22 pm

I don't know if anyone knows this, but htf did we let this happen? We've gone from what seems to be no talk about this to complete panic/shut the bridge down for two years/fast track the north loop plan.

Someone fucked up? Who? This stuff drives me crazy.

flyingember
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5569
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby flyingember » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:25 pm

WoodDraw wrote:I don't know if anyone knows this, but htf did we let this happen? We've gone from what seems to be no talk about this to complete panic/shut the bridge down for two years/fast track the north loop plan.

Someone fucked up? Who? This stuff drives me crazy.

The legislature nomadequately funding modot relative to the work needed plus over building most projects plus too many state roads period relative to our population combined with modot debt financing everything and not establishing maintenance funds.

loftguy
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3753
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:12 pm

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby loftguy » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:59 pm

Add to the mix, the recent discovery that submerged piers have eroded to an disturbing degree.
I understand that many informed on the subject don't use the bridge any longer.

aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12128
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:10 pm

KCPowercat wrote:How is the community bridge in LOTO done legally?


You go me. What/where is LOTO? Is my belief a belief in an urban legend?
I know the Broadway Bridge was a toll bridge, at one time I believe there was a toll on both ends. But the bridge was a local government build, no state money.

flyingember
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5569
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby flyingember » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:10 pm

aknowledgeableperson wrote:I know the Broadway Bridge was a toll bridge, at one time I believe there was a toll on both ends. But the bridge was a local government build, no state money.

The toll booth were all where the bridge gets wider on the south end.

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 27316
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby KCPowercat » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:31 am

Lake of the Ozarks (loto)

aknowledgeableperson
City Center Square
City Center Square
Posts: 12128
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:31 pm

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby aknowledgeableperson » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:21 am

KCPowercat wrote:Lake of the Ozarks (loto)


That bridge was not built by the state but by a private corp. I believe it was built and now operated by The Lake of the Ozarks Community Bridge Transportation Development District.

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 27316
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby KCPowercat » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:19 am

Hence my suggestion of a public private partnership.

User avatar
KCPowercat
Power & Light
Power & Light
Posts: 27316
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:49 pm
Location: Quality Hill
Contact:

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby KCPowercat » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:57 pm

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/ar ... 53459.html

Toll gates, which were part of the original bridge, could also be part of the solution, Minder said.

“That’s how we funded it the first time,” he said.

=D>

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 15195
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby DaveKCMO » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:07 pm

KCPowercat wrote:http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article145753459.html

Toll gates, which were part of the original bridge, could also be part of the solution, Minder said.

“That’s how we funded it the first time,” he said.

=D>


here's the presentation wes gave: https://t.co/G9GKYGzCbU

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 15195
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby DaveKCMO » Sat May 06, 2017 8:44 am


User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 15195
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby DaveKCMO » Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:04 pm

learned some new tidbits today:

1) modot and kcmo are now in talks for a short-term (3-5yrs) fix that will allow design (NEPA, actually) for a replacement bridge to continue. the short-term fix and NEPA work would cost $7 million and be split 50/50 between modot and kcmo. GO bond revenue is likely candidate for local match.

2) discussions with BNSF about a combined road/rail bridge have concluded that a new combined bridge would need to be a movable structure since the grades approaching the current hannibal bridge could not change (this seems unlikely)

3) PEL team is looking to mimic the design of HOA bridge, which would allow more flexibility with locating the piers for a new bridge

4) a substantial structure (read: expensive) would be required to directly connect US-169 and I-35 traffic due to the elevation differences between the river crossing and west loop

5) PEL concepts will be released to the public in August and ULI is coming back in september to review progress

Image

pash
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3625
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:47 am

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby pash » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:27 pm

Disgusting. So the grand plan is a bog-standard MoDOT highway overpass of a new bridge? Let me guess: they'll tack on a five-foot wide pedestrian path on one side and pat themselves on the back. Oh, we're so urban and progressive!

Is connecting 169 and I-35 locked in as the highest priority? In my opinion, not only should that not be the main function of a new bridge, it should not happen at all, particularly not if decommissioning the North Loop is still part of the long-term vision for downtown. We do not need massive investments in new infrastructure in order to make it still easier and faster to speed from one suburb to another through the heart of downtown.

It's disappointing that nobody seems to see this as an opportunity to build something that will help rather than hinder downtown's progress as an attractive place to live and work, or really as anything other than yet another highway project with the aim of making even easier and faster what is already the nation's easiest and fastest suburban commute. Where is the bridge that will anchor the west end of a completely reimagined North Loop? Where is the bridge that will make possible new development on the Harlem riverfront and better connect to downtown the Crossroads of the next decade in near North Kansas City? Where is any evidence that anybody who matters gives a single shit about anything other than getting from Liberty to Overland Park two and a half minutes faster?

Typical fucking Kansas City.

Edit: typos
Last edited by pash on Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 15195
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby DaveKCMO » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:40 pm

there are a lot of competing priorities here.

- downtowners (and, to a lesser degree, kcmo) want to eliminate the danger of an at-grade interchange for two federal highways (45% of current SB US-169 trips are not headed to north loop) and open the I-70 portion up for redevelopment.
- northland interests want the direct 169/35 connection, presumably to fuel twin creeks growth (and, yes, that is disgusting).
- the DOTs don't want to spend any money or decommission any assets.
- bike/ped advocates just want the safe river crossing they were promised after the bond bridge debacle.
- a few transit advocates (i'm not one of them) want a combined road/rail bridge that would preserve a future option for commuter rail.
- kck apparently doesn't want to do anything.
- all of the federal agencies (corps, FAA, FHWA) want you to follow their rules.

earthling
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3646
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby earthling » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:44 pm

^Thank you for taking the time to keep us grounded with all the details involved... with every thread.

WoodDraw
Colonnade
Colonnade
Posts: 801
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby WoodDraw » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:48 pm

a 3-5 year short-term fix doesn't seem like the worst case scenario though, yeah? Assuming KC/downtown uses that time to put together a true master plan for the area. This never seemed like a timeline anyone felt comfortable with.

Now that requires actually following through longterm

pash
Bryant Building
Bryant Building
Posts: 3625
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:47 am

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby pash » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:08 pm

DaveKCMO wrote:- downtowners (and, to a lesser degree, kcmo) want to eliminate the danger of an at-grade interchange for two federal highways (45% of current SB US-169 trips are not headed to north loop)

Please try to open a discussion about eliminating the connection of the two highways entirely. Downtown does not need a new highway interchange. The highway should stop at the north end of the new bridge (or even farther north), and the bridge should be designed to carry car traffic bound for the city into the city, not car traffic bound for the suburbs and for Texas into a new highway interchange built for their convenience in the heart of the city.

There are plenty of other existing, underutilized routes to the suburbs and to Texas. We do not need a major investment to improve this one, particularly not in a metro and a state that already has a vastly overbuilt and underutilized highway system, one that even now we cannot afford to maintain. US 169 is already a secondary designation of I-70 and I-29 in the area, two highways that already connect directly elsewhere. The bridge and drag strip adjacent to downtown airport do not need to be designated as US 169 at all.

User avatar
DaveKCMO
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 15195
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:22 pm
Location: Crossroads
Contact:

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Postby DaveKCMO » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:22 pm

pash wrote:Please try to open a discussion about eliminating the connection of the two highways entirely.


ask someone who isn't a pragmatist.


Return to “Kansas City Transportation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests